5 ms·

Well IMO it's kind of silly to care about the government snooping through my data when huge corporations are the ones who actually own the fiber and can siphon

Well IMO it's kind of silly to care about the government snooping through my data when huge corporations are the ones who actually own the fiber and can siphon all the traffic they want -- then sell it. You're basically choosing between the US government or a combination of Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and Deutsche Telekom.

k-mcgrady 13y ago
>> "You're basically choosing between the US government or a combination of Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and Deutsche Telekom." Honestly I'd be more happy with the telecom companies doing it. They can do much less harm with any data they get.
- teddyh 13y ago
  And when the companies then give their data to the government? The only solution is for the data never to exist at all.
- phillmv 13y ago
  I'd prefer it if no one did it. I can imagine a future where your credit rating is influenced by your Facebook profile and it's not a fun one.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - malandrew 13y ago
    Such a future would be yet another example of the institutionalization of racism just like the war on drugs. Imagine the day when you have to think to yourself "will friending this person reduce my credit rating?"
- ptaffs 13y ago
  oh agreed -- less harm. And when the government do it, we the people pay tax to enable it. US Taxpayers are paying for these buildings, mega-data centers, and contractors.
- jonsleet 13y ago
  No, a corporation will do anything to increase its profits - or more accurately, dominance of its market. Anyone that can pay will get. With an added bonus of obscurity. As an aside, when you think of corporations try not to think about the imagery they bathe you in. Think of a serial killer sidling up next to you all smiles and compliments. That would be more accurate.
  - CWuestefeld 13y ago
    I'm assuming that you work for a corporation. That corporation is made up of you, and a heap of other folks quite similar to you. It's true that lots of corporations do unethical things, but you also should keep in mind that at its heart, it's people like you and I that are doing it. They respond to incentives like the rest of us, they (mostly) have a conscience, and generally try to do the right thing. They're not always successful, but I don't think that your caricature is generally accurate.
    - jonsleet 13y ago
      No, I do not. I did work for several in the past and only one of those would I say operated "with conscience". They were overcome - overwhelmed by more "sinister" competition (of some reknown, wildly successful still). You need to see their operations as algorithms, and put numbers to actions. Ethical behavior often has a cost - and the counter unethical behavior can yield great gains - exposure may have a risk of a cost, but that may be mitigated with proxy agents, or marketing and relationship management. Someone has this all worked out, monte carloed through the gamut, including things that you might consider to be greatly evil.
- enumBoss 13y ago
  And you usually have a choice with corporations. You can see in ToS how they plan to use your data and they often let you opt out. You don't get that with government agencies. Often you don't even know your data is taken since they're monitoring as much as they can see.
SkynetSystems 13y ago
The difference is the government can use their profiling and data snooping to take away your life or liberty, while corporations can't.
__m 13y ago
No you can't choose, they might all spy on you. All you say will be used against you.
alan_cx 13y ago
I've never been arrested by a corporation.
- Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
  Do you think law enforcement aren't included in there customers? I know for a fact in the UK at least that they are. As for being arrested by a corporation - that will change. The UK government for one are beginning a process of outsourcing some elements of front line policing.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    Interesting thought, I can imagine an ad campaign on Facebook targeting marijuana growers, and then the government using the profile information of those that click through to investigate them.
    - Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
      This is less targeted - simply using the usage information many large commercial organisations are gathering, the stuff people are giving up without thinking. At present it's anonymised and is being used for broad profiling of areas, but I can see that changing over time.
- phaer 13y ago
  In the current political climate you might have to wait no longer than about a decade for that to happen. Several countries already started out-sourcing prison guards and/or other security relevant jobs to companies like G4S
- xradionut 13y ago
  Why should they arrest you when they can destroy you economically?
  - mortyseinfeld 13y ago
    I'd rather be "destroyed economically" than thrown in a gulag.
wcummings 13y ago
Well, when Google/Verizon/etc has the authority to imprison me ill be more worried. In the meantime, this is an issue that can be addressed with data protection laws.
walid 13y ago
Actually that is not true. When companies do it, laws can be passed to stop such behaviour but when government does it, you have to change governance which is more difficult. Also commercial entities cannot siphon people's data under the title of security.
notdrunkatall 13y ago
The difference is in the number of entities which own it and what they can do with it. AT&T, Verizon et al can't unilaterally decide that you're a terrorist and arrest you, but the government can. The government should be the gatekeeper for what can be done with your data, but it should not be allowed to own that data itself.

k-mcgrady 13y ago

>> "You're basically choosing between the US government or a combination of Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and Deutsche Telekom." Honestly I'd be more happy with the telecom companies doing it. They can do much less harm with any data they get.

teddyh 13y ago
And when the companies then give their data to the government? The only solution is for the data never to exist at all.
phillmv 13y ago
I'd prefer it if no one did it. I can imagine a future where your credit rating is influenced by your Facebook profile and it's not a fun one.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- malandrew 13y ago
  Such a future would be yet another example of the institutionalization of racism just like the war on drugs. Imagine the day when you have to think to yourself "will friending this person reduce my credit rating?"
ptaffs 13y ago
oh agreed -- less harm. And when the government do it, we the people pay tax to enable it. US Taxpayers are paying for these buildings, mega-data centers, and contractors.
jonsleet 13y ago
No, a corporation will do anything to increase its profits - or more accurately, dominance of its market. Anyone that can pay will get. With an added bonus of obscurity. As an aside, when you think of corporations try not to think about the imagery they bathe you in. Think of a serial killer sidling up next to you all smiles and compliments. That would be more accurate.
- CWuestefeld 13y ago
  I'm assuming that you work for a corporation. That corporation is made up of you, and a heap of other folks quite similar to you. It's true that lots of corporations do unethical things, but you also should keep in mind that at its heart, it's people like you and I that are doing it. They respond to incentives like the rest of us, they (mostly) have a conscience, and generally try to do the right thing. They're not always successful, but I don't think that your caricature is generally accurate.
  - jonsleet 13y ago
    No, I do not. I did work for several in the past and only one of those would I say operated "with conscience". They were overcome - overwhelmed by more "sinister" competition (of some reknown, wildly successful still). You need to see their operations as algorithms, and put numbers to actions. Ethical behavior often has a cost - and the counter unethical behavior can yield great gains - exposure may have a risk of a cost, but that may be mitigated with proxy agents, or marketing and relationship management. Someone has this all worked out, monte carloed through the gamut, including things that you might consider to be greatly evil.
enumBoss 13y ago
And you usually have a choice with corporations. You can see in ToS how they plan to use your data and they often let you opt out. You don't get that with government agencies. Often you don't even know your data is taken since they're monitoring as much as they can see.

SkynetSystems 13y ago

The difference is the government can use their profiling and data snooping to take away your life or liberty, while corporations can't.

__m 13y ago

No you can't choose, they might all spy on you. All you say will be used against you.

alan_cx 13y ago

I've never been arrested by a corporation.

Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
Do you think law enforcement aren't included in there customers? I know for a fact in the UK at least that they are. As for being arrested by a corporation - that will change. The UK government for one are beginning a process of outsourcing some elements of front line policing.
- malandrew 13y ago
  Interesting thought, I can imagine an ad campaign on Facebook targeting marijuana growers, and then the government using the profile information of those that click through to investigate them.
  - Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
    This is less targeted - simply using the usage information many large commercial organisations are gathering, the stuff people are giving up without thinking. At present it's anonymised and is being used for broad profiling of areas, but I can see that changing over time.
phaer 13y ago
In the current political climate you might have to wait no longer than about a decade for that to happen. Several countries already started out-sourcing prison guards and/or other security relevant jobs to companies like G4S
xradionut 13y ago
Why should they arrest you when they can destroy you economically?
- mortyseinfeld 13y ago
  I'd rather be "destroyed economically" than thrown in a gulag.

wcummings 13y ago

Well, when Google/Verizon/etc has the authority to imprison me ill be more worried. In the meantime, this is an issue that can be addressed with data protection laws.

walid 13y ago

Actually that is not true. When companies do it, laws can be passed to stop such behaviour but when government does it, you have to change governance which is more difficult. Also commercial entities cannot siphon people's data under the title of security.

notdrunkatall 13y ago

The difference is in the number of entities which own it and what they can do with it. AT&T, Verizon et al can't unilaterally decide that you're a terrorist and arrest you, but the government can. The government should be the gatekeeper for what can be done with your data, but it should not be allowed to own that data itself.