9 ms·

There is a really great article in The Atlantic (from 2011) called "Secret Fears of the Super-Rich" on this topic: Excerpt: The respondents turn out to be a ge

by birken 13y ago

There is a really great article in The Atlantic (from 2011) called "Secret Fears of the Super-Rich" on this topic: Excerpt: The respondents turn out to be a generally dissatisfied lot, whose money has contributed to deep anxieties involving love, work, and family. Indeed, they are frequently dissatisfied even with their sizable fortunes. Most of them still do not consider themselves financially secure; for that, they say, they would require on average one-quarter more wealth than they currently possess. (Remember: this is a population with assets in the tens of millions of dollars and above.) Link: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/04/secret-fears-of-the-super-rich/308419/?single_page=true http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/04/secret-f...

rahimnathwani 13y ago
I recall a colleague once (~10 years ago) telling me that some people he knew felt that 5k GBP would be enough to solve all of their (money) worries. I thought it absurd, i.e. too low given things like planning for old age. I guess there are people who would think my estimate too low if I said I needed 5m for the same purpose. (not saying 5m is the right number for me or anyone else.)
- paraschopra 13y ago
  One of the projects I want to do is to map living expenses, inflation and life expectancy to know exactly how much money is "enough". My problem is that we forget that we tomorrow should be more valuable to us than today and by the time we get this realization, we might have lost many years (of adulthood).
  - monsterix 13y ago
    > One of the projects I want to do is to map living expenses, inflation and life expectancy to know exactly how much money is "enough". There you go: http://www.nileshtrivedi.com/2012/07/10/how-much-is-enough.html http://www.nileshtrivedi.com/2012/07/10/how-much-is-enough.h...
    - gchokov 13y ago
      Or, just create a blank web page with black font saying "it's never going to be enough, give this thought up". Reminds me of another saying that software development time is never enough, except when you have hard borders and deadlines with the right priorities and vision - it will take exactly that time. Getting more money loosens the borders - you buy better houses, better cars, have bigger family, make bigger investments..and you need more to support that.
      - sokoloff 13y ago
        That's true to a point for everyone: that having more money from a low starting point primarily increases lifestyle. But as you add more and more money, I think that most people reach a turning point where "enough really is enough" and their worries about money truly diminish, but that lifestyle stops increasing. As I've grown in my own career, for sure my lifestyle increased. I literally subsisted on Ramen and $2 frozen pizzas in my first startup. Then as I achieved more income, I added a convertible, then a 401-k, then a new SUV (worst decision to that point), then a first house, then maxing out 401-k, then an airplane, then a classic Mustang, then a city apartment because my house was too far away and I got tired of the constant commute, then moved to a house in the city, then had 2 wonderful kids, then added 529s (college savings plans), then a bigger airplane, then... All of those things, except the 401k and 529s, also came with additional expenses in time and money. (Technically, those 2 did as well, but in an immaterial way compared to orchestrating the maintenance on a house, classic car or airplane.) However, I can also see that increases in income from here won't go towards (current) lifestyle inflation, as we have "enough" now. That could be because I'm older and wiser now, rather than a natural knee in the lifestyle vs income curve, but I'm inclined to think it's a natural knee. For very few people does that knee hit before $100K/yr in a major US city. I'd guess that for a great many people, it doesn't hit until after $250K/yr, which is why people for shorthand say that it doesn't exist. If you'd like to challenge yourself to bring that knee closer to the left side of the graph for yourself, I recommend Mr Money Moustache, Len Penzo and JLCollinsNH as bloggers who write extensively (and well) about this topic. Quick Googling will find them all. I believe that getting to the right side of that knee, where you can stop worrying about money, is worth so much more mentally and emotionally than any amount of lifestyle inflation (beyond the basics of food and shelter). So, whether you can manage to increase your income to pass to the right of the knee, or move the knee to the left of your income, either way you'll be happier than a new car, new house, splendid vacations or 100 great dinners out.
  - vanderZwan 13y ago
    Based on the following research, I guess $75K? http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/09/07/129703291/new-study-high-incomes-don-t-bring-you-happiness http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/09/07/129703291/new-stud...
    - Casseres 13y ago
      That's per year and doesn't keep up with inflation. To have financial independence, you need enough money so that $75k or whatever annual number you want is derived from the earnings of whatever your your sizable chunk of money is invested in.
      - sliverstorm 13y ago
        What does financial independence have to do with that number? The article is about "happiness" and "enough". Fuck-you money is not required for either of those things.
        Casseres 13y ago
        The theme of this discussion is about freedom. That includes not having to rely on an external source of spending money, yearly income, "fuck-you" money, or whatever you want to call it. This is also known as financial independence. The $75k per year has to come from somewhere. If it's not interest from an investment or some other automatic payout, then you are not free because you have to work at making sure you always get that $75k a year to be happy. In paraschopra's comment about calculating how much is enough, he mentioned life expectancy. That tells me is isn't just considering an annual amount of money to be happy, but a greater amount from which the annual money comes from.
        sliverstorm 13y ago
        Ah, you are right, I missed the part about life expectancy. Of course, the $75k number is based on working individuals- I expect the number will be completely different for non-working individuals. People who are not working both do not enjoy the same life-satisfaction that can be had from rewarding employment, and do not suffer the stresses of that employment, so who knows where the balance of happiness lies. Perhaps if we are talking about someone who is not working for their money, there is no such thing as "enough", as they have no happiness "cost" to simply having more money (as they do not need to work for it)?
  - jacques_chester 13y ago
    Find an actuary. This is what they do for a living.
- xioxox 13y ago
  5k seems absurd, though there is a big differential in the UK between those who own a house and those who do not. If I lived in London, 1e6 GBP would be necessary for housing alone, a ridiculous sum compared to the average wage.
  - theorique 13y ago
    Do you have a large family or a need for an enormous space? London's expensive, but it's not that expensive. You can get a nice, but not huge, apartment in a central area for £400 / week which would work out to £20K per year. Source: this was true as of 2011 when I stayed with friends in a 2BR apartment paying exactly that.
    - rahimnathwani 13y ago
      I was going to make the same comment, but: - I then realise he's probably talking about buying rather than renting - I read this report which claims that the median value of residential property in fancy parts of London (what the report calls 'Prime London') is 1m GBP, and the mean is about 1.4m GBP: http://www.marshandparsons.co.uk/news/research/item/1519-london-property-monitor-q3-2013 http://www.marshandparsons.co.uk/news/research/item/1519-lon...
  - archangel_one 13y ago
    I do live in London, and while it's expensive, I can't see how you could need £100k annually simply for accommodation. Unless you have a very large family to support too?
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      Only an unwashed pleb would live in anything less than 20,000sq-ft, eh?
    - rahimnathwani 13y ago
      1e6 is a million. I assume he's talking about buying a place rather than renting.
- esw 13y ago
  It's difficult to see beyond your immediate problems when you're broke and living month-to-month. My guess is that anyone who says $5k will solve 'all of their money worries' is probably not including retirement in that figure.
  - mathrawka 13y ago
    Those people are thinking they will never be able to retire, so why include that?
    - esw 13y ago
      For what it's worth, I think most people think their financial situation will eventually improve (even if they're wrong).
sliverstorm 13y ago
No surprise there; would the folks who are satisfied with what they have, bother to become super-rich?

by birken 13y ago

rahimnathwani 13y ago

I recall a colleague once (~10 years ago) telling me that some people he knew felt that 5k GBP would be enough to solve all of their (money) worries. I thought it absurd, i.e. too low given things like planning for old age. I guess there are people who would think my estimate too low if I said I needed 5m for the same purpose. (not saying 5m is the right number for me or anyone else.)

paraschopra 13y ago
One of the projects I want to do is to map living expenses, inflation and life expectancy to know exactly how much money is "enough". My problem is that we forget that we tomorrow should be more valuable to us than today and by the time we get this realization, we might have lost many years (of adulthood).
- monsterix 13y ago
  > One of the projects I want to do is to map living expenses, inflation and life expectancy to know exactly how much money is "enough". There you go: http://www.nileshtrivedi.com/2012/07/10/how-much-is-enough.html http://www.nileshtrivedi.com/2012/07/10/how-much-is-enough.h...
  - gchokov 13y ago
    Or, just create a blank web page with black font saying "it's never going to be enough, give this thought up". Reminds me of another saying that software development time is never enough, except when you have hard borders and deadlines with the right priorities and vision - it will take exactly that time. Getting more money loosens the borders - you buy better houses, better cars, have bigger family, make bigger investments..and you need more to support that.
    - sokoloff 13y ago
      That's true to a point for everyone: that having more money from a low starting point primarily increases lifestyle. But as you add more and more money, I think that most people reach a turning point where "enough really is enough" and their worries about money truly diminish, but that lifestyle stops increasing. As I've grown in my own career, for sure my lifestyle increased. I literally subsisted on Ramen and $2 frozen pizzas in my first startup. Then as I achieved more income, I added a convertible, then a 401-k, then a new SUV (worst decision to that point), then a first house, then maxing out 401-k, then an airplane, then a classic Mustang, then a city apartment because my house was too far away and I got tired of the constant commute, then moved to a house in the city, then had 2 wonderful kids, then added 529s (college savings plans), then a bigger airplane, then... All of those things, except the 401k and 529s, also came with additional expenses in time and money. (Technically, those 2 did as well, but in an immaterial way compared to orchestrating the maintenance on a house, classic car or airplane.) However, I can also see that increases in income from here won't go towards (current) lifestyle inflation, as we have "enough" now. That could be because I'm older and wiser now, rather than a natural knee in the lifestyle vs income curve, but I'm inclined to think it's a natural knee. For very few people does that knee hit before $100K/yr in a major US city. I'd guess that for a great many people, it doesn't hit until after $250K/yr, which is why people for shorthand say that it doesn't exist. If you'd like to challenge yourself to bring that knee closer to the left side of the graph for yourself, I recommend Mr Money Moustache, Len Penzo and JLCollinsNH as bloggers who write extensively (and well) about this topic. Quick Googling will find them all. I believe that getting to the right side of that knee, where you can stop worrying about money, is worth so much more mentally and emotionally than any amount of lifestyle inflation (beyond the basics of food and shelter). So, whether you can manage to increase your income to pass to the right of the knee, or move the knee to the left of your income, either way you'll be happier than a new car, new house, splendid vacations or 100 great dinners out.
- vanderZwan 13y ago
  Based on the following research, I guess $75K? http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/09/07/129703291/new-study-high-incomes-don-t-bring-you-happiness http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/09/07/129703291/new-stud...
  - Casseres 13y ago
    That's per year and doesn't keep up with inflation. To have financial independence, you need enough money so that $75k or whatever annual number you want is derived from the earnings of whatever your your sizable chunk of money is invested in.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      What does financial independence have to do with that number? The article is about "happiness" and "enough". Fuck-you money is not required for either of those things.
      - Casseres 13y ago
        The theme of this discussion is about freedom. That includes not having to rely on an external source of spending money, yearly income, "fuck-you" money, or whatever you want to call it. This is also known as financial independence. The $75k per year has to come from somewhere. If it's not interest from an investment or some other automatic payout, then you are not free because you have to work at making sure you always get that $75k a year to be happy. In paraschopra's comment about calculating how much is enough, he mentioned life expectancy. That tells me is isn't just considering an annual amount of money to be happy, but a greater amount from which the annual money comes from.
        sliverstorm 13y ago
        Ah, you are right, I missed the part about life expectancy. Of course, the $75k number is based on working individuals- I expect the number will be completely different for non-working individuals. People who are not working both do not enjoy the same life-satisfaction that can be had from rewarding employment, and do not suffer the stresses of that employment, so who knows where the balance of happiness lies. Perhaps if we are talking about someone who is not working for their money, there is no such thing as "enough", as they have no happiness "cost" to simply having more money (as they do not need to work for it)?
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  Find an actuary. This is what they do for a living.
xioxox 13y ago
5k seems absurd, though there is a big differential in the UK between those who own a house and those who do not. If I lived in London, 1e6 GBP would be necessary for housing alone, a ridiculous sum compared to the average wage.
- theorique 13y ago
  Do you have a large family or a need for an enormous space? London's expensive, but it's not that expensive. You can get a nice, but not huge, apartment in a central area for £400 / week which would work out to £20K per year. Source: this was true as of 2011 when I stayed with friends in a 2BR apartment paying exactly that.
  - rahimnathwani 13y ago
    I was going to make the same comment, but: - I then realise he's probably talking about buying rather than renting - I read this report which claims that the median value of residential property in fancy parts of London (what the report calls 'Prime London') is 1m GBP, and the mean is about 1.4m GBP: http://www.marshandparsons.co.uk/news/research/item/1519-london-property-monitor-q3-2013 http://www.marshandparsons.co.uk/news/research/item/1519-lon...
- archangel_one 13y ago
  I do live in London, and while it's expensive, I can't see how you could need £100k annually simply for accommodation. Unless you have a very large family to support too?
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    Only an unwashed pleb would live in anything less than 20,000sq-ft, eh?
  - rahimnathwani 13y ago
    1e6 is a million. I assume he's talking about buying a place rather than renting.
esw 13y ago
It's difficult to see beyond your immediate problems when you're broke and living month-to-month. My guess is that anyone who says $5k will solve 'all of their money worries' is probably not including retirement in that figure.
- mathrawka 13y ago
  Those people are thinking they will never be able to retire, so why include that?
  - esw 13y ago
    For what it's worth, I think most people think their financial situation will eventually improve (even if they're wrong).

sliverstorm 13y ago

No surprise there; would the folks who are satisfied with what they have, bother to become super-rich?