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It's nice that a lot more people like Iron Maiden. But the article doesn't tell us what effect it had on the problem with in-store sales that it laid out in the

It's nice that a lot more people like Iron Maiden. But the article doesn't tell us what effect it had on the problem with in-store sales that it laid out in the first paragraph. I happen to think that in-store sales are a red herring, and overall sales are more interesting, but that's not what the introduction laid out. But even total sales aren't cited, just a number of social media friends. I'm also not sure how much we can take from observation of mega-bands like Maiden. I doubt that their experience will translate very well into the long tail of musicians.

epsylon 13y ago
> I doubt that their experience will translate very well into the long tail of musicians. Oh I'm sure it does. I certainly wouldn't know as many bands as I know today without piracy - and this translates very much into buying CDs and going to shows, though I can't afford to buy every CD from every band I like. For smaller bands, getting known is the most important. It's what gets them bigger gigs, better labels, better production, better press coverage, better invitations to festivals, better endorsement deals... There's a very strong analogy with start ups there : focus on growth, take VC money, and you'll get the conversion rate sorted out when you're bigger.
- soci 13y ago
  > focus on growth, take VC money, and you'll get the conversion rate sorted out when you're bigger. Not in the lean-startup movement!
- paulhauggis 13y ago
  This is true. But now how does a smaller band sustain themselves if they don't want to sign with a major label? It now almost forces them to if they ever want to make a living in music.
m3mnoch 13y ago
while not "in-store sales", i think this helps: "The result was massive sellouts. The São Paolo show alone grossed £1.58 million (US$2.58 million) alone." personally, i'm with you. in-store sales are a red herring. for the entire history of music -- aside from the last 60 years or so -- musicians have been paid for performances or on commission. music, my friends, is a service, not a product. and it has been for century upon century. it's really this recent machination created by the recording industry that is the anomaly. music piracy is really just the correction back to the mean.
- stdbrouw 13y ago
  I agree with your conclusion but not your argument. What does it matter if making a living as a musician through record sales is a historical anomaly? And can you really call it an anomaly if previous generations didn't have the option of selling records as the technology didn't exist? That's like saying "cars are a historically anomalous mode of transport". Great. So? And by the way, in the early 20th century Broadway made a lot of money from sheet music. A product.
  - smacktoward 13y ago
    Yeah, really. Just about everything we take for granted as part of modern life is an historical anomaly. Electric lighting is an historical anomaly. Clean drinking water is an historical anomaly. Etc.
  - pyre 13y ago
    It's a 'sound byte' that popped up in response to the people that preach doom and gloom if the "piracy problem" isn't solved (e.g. "music is doomed") as if all music would cease to exist, and no one would have motivation to be a musician if it wasn't for record sales.
  - m3mnoch 13y ago
    two quick things. on the cars -- horses were bought and sold. trains. boats. you name it. buying a product that is transformed by technology is not the same as trying to take a service and transform it into a product through technology. you can augment the service (large margins) or automate the service (thin margins), but you can't turn it into a product. on the sheet music -- precisely! that's the exact analogy. note the incredible consumer demand for sheet music today! it's not exactly a booming market outside of the niche training/instruction arena. edit: btw, that last bit about the incredible demand today for sheet music was sarcasm. just in case it didn't come across....
    - stdbrouw 13y ago
      > you can augment the service (large margins) or automate the service (thin margins), but you can't turn it into a product. Why not?
mathattack 13y ago
I doubt it moved the needle at all. I think their reaction was, "We know they like us enough to steal the music, so let's give them something they can't rip off." I don't think it improved store sales.

epsylon 13y ago

> I doubt that their experience will translate very well into the long tail of musicians. Oh I'm sure it does. I certainly wouldn't know as many bands as I know today without piracy - and this translates very much into buying CDs and going to shows, though I can't afford to buy every CD from every band I like. For smaller bands, getting known is the most important. It's what gets them bigger gigs, better labels, better production, better press coverage, better invitations to festivals, better endorsement deals... There's a very strong analogy with start ups there : focus on growth, take VC money, and you'll get the conversion rate sorted out when you're bigger.

soci 13y ago
> focus on growth, take VC money, and you'll get the conversion rate sorted out when you're bigger. Not in the lean-startup movement!
paulhauggis 13y ago
This is true. But now how does a smaller band sustain themselves if they don't want to sign with a major label? It now almost forces them to if they ever want to make a living in music.

m3mnoch 13y ago

while not "in-store sales", i think this helps: "The result was massive sellouts. The São Paolo show alone grossed £1.58 million (US$2.58 million) alone." personally, i'm with you. in-store sales are a red herring. for the entire history of music -- aside from the last 60 years or so -- musicians have been paid for performances or on commission. music, my friends, is a service, not a product. and it has been for century upon century. it's really this recent machination created by the recording industry that is the anomaly. music piracy is really just the correction back to the mean.

stdbrouw 13y ago
I agree with your conclusion but not your argument. What does it matter if making a living as a musician through record sales is a historical anomaly? And can you really call it an anomaly if previous generations didn't have the option of selling records as the technology didn't exist? That's like saying "cars are a historically anomalous mode of transport". Great. So? And by the way, in the early 20th century Broadway made a lot of money from sheet music. A product.
- smacktoward 13y ago
  Yeah, really. Just about everything we take for granted as part of modern life is an historical anomaly. Electric lighting is an historical anomaly. Clean drinking water is an historical anomaly. Etc.
- pyre 13y ago
  It's a 'sound byte' that popped up in response to the people that preach doom and gloom if the "piracy problem" isn't solved (e.g. "music is doomed") as if all music would cease to exist, and no one would have motivation to be a musician if it wasn't for record sales.
- m3mnoch 13y ago
  two quick things. on the cars -- horses were bought and sold. trains. boats. you name it. buying a product that is transformed by technology is not the same as trying to take a service and transform it into a product through technology. you can augment the service (large margins) or automate the service (thin margins), but you can't turn it into a product. on the sheet music -- precisely! that's the exact analogy. note the incredible consumer demand for sheet music today! it's not exactly a booming market outside of the niche training/instruction arena. edit: btw, that last bit about the incredible demand today for sheet music was sarcasm. just in case it didn't come across....
  - stdbrouw 13y ago
    > you can augment the service (large margins) or automate the service (thin margins), but you can't turn it into a product. Why not?

mathattack 13y ago

I doubt it moved the needle at all. I think their reaction was, "We know they like us enough to steal the music, so let's give them something they can't rip off." I don't think it improved store sales.