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> Because it seems that feminists say men can't take care of children, particularly by so convincing the US judicial system that only women can care for childre

> Because it seems that feminists say men can't take care of children, particularly by so convincing the US judicial system that only women can care for children that it takes extraordinary circumstances for a father to get custody. This is not true at all. In cases where fathers seek custody, they have a good chance of gaining custody or arriving at a shared custody arrangement. > Modern, vocal feminists have, by and large, become severely anti-men in many of their policies. From convincing the world that all men are rapists and manipulating definitions of rape to induce male perpetrators. Are you serious? When someone points out that most rapes are committed by men they aren't saying all men are rapists. Also, there has been tremendous effort to expand definitions of rape, esp. from a legal standpoint, to be more inclusive of sexual assault as it happens, whether it be to men or women and whether committed by a man or woman. > To the lovely Tumble feministas /SJW who spread vile, hate-filled messages against men. Please, tell me more about how someone venting about men oppresses you. > To a court system and public that's been convinced by the feminist political machine that women need to be protected and there's no way they could possibly rape someone or lie about being raped. This is the exact opposite thing that feminist and activist communities are fighting against. The notion that women are fragile and need special protections is highly misogynistic and patriarchal. That consideration of woman has been generally used against women and to prevent their access to equality over the last 100 years+. Further, nobody is arguing that women cannot commit rape. If somewhere were to argue that, they would be discounting the experiences of many sexual assault survivors. Also, yes women can lie about rape, but that is not the primary issue with sexual assault and catching those that commit sexual assaults as the majority of sexual assaults go without a conviction and sexual assault continues to be a large scale social problem. > There's no such thing as the patriarchy in modern culture. Feminists like using that word as a scapegoat and explanation for everything they do and don't like. You are so obsessed with straw feminists that this is ridiculous. Like anything, there are many different voices and opinions that use the label feminism, but you seem to rather want to ignore any social problems in favor of blaming women.

aroch 13y ago
>This is not true at all. In cases where fathers seek custody, they have a good chance of gaining custody or arriving at a shared custody arrangement. ~18% of fathers are the custodial parent. Shared custody favors the mothers in most circumstances. >60% of of fathers (regardless of custodial status) are required to pay child support to the mother. On average, women are awarded more child support than men -- Women also receive >85% of all child support paid every year. >Are you serious? When someone points out that most rapes are committed by men they aren't saying all men are rapists. Also, there has been tremendous effort to expand definitions of rape, esp. from a legal standpoint, to be more inclusive of sexual assault as it happens, whether it be to men or women and whether committed by a man or woman. Then why are we pushing campaigns to teach men not to rape but not women? Why are colleges around the US putting students through rape awareness education only telling men not to rape? As for redefinitions, feminists pushed for the recent FBI expansion that makes forced fallatio rape but not forced cunnilingus. They also pushed for the definition to be forced penetration by the accused, excluding cases where a man is forced to penetrate by the women. >Please, tell me more about how someone venting about men oppresses you. Please tell me more about derailing by insulting. >You are so obsessed with straw feminists that this is ridiculous. Like anything, there are many different voices and opinions that use the label feminism, but you seem to rather want to ignore any social problems in favor of blaming women. As usual, those voices (despite being some prolific and vocal, really being the face of feminism today) are No True Scotsman'ed out of being feminists.
- king_jester 13y ago
  > ~18% of fathers are the custodial parent. Shared custody favors the mothers in most circumstances. This is correct, the overall rate is low. However, this doesn't take into account rates of fathers seeking custody. About 50% of fathers seeking primary custody in divorce cases are granted such custody. It should be noted that fathers generally do not see primary custody as frequently as women in these cases, which skews the overall rate. > 60% of of fathers (regardless of custodial status) are required to pay child support to the mother. I don't dispute this. However, rates of payout are different from legal obligation to pay. Any person, man or woman, receiving child support are more likely to only receive some partial sum of child support, if any. Moreover, there is already income inequality for women in general in the US, this will have a bearing on whether or not fathers, who are statistically more likely to be better paid, have to pay child support. > On average, women are awarded more child support than men -- Women also receive 85% of all child support paid every year. As you yourself noted, women are much more likely to be performing primary custody and care for a child, we would then expect that women receive more child support then men in such an arrangement. As I mentioned before, this is a bit misleading as many people don't receive full amounts of child support or have some kind of informal support arrangement that is not court ordered. > Then why are we pushing campaigns to teach men not to rape but not women? Why are colleges around the US putting students through rape awareness education only telling men not to rape? Rape and sexual assault is overwhelmingly committed by men. Prevention messages and campaigns are targeted this way for this reason. That is not to say that they deny that women can commit sexual assault, but rather that a primary problem is behaviors committed by people who are men. Campaigns that focus on women's behavior are not addressing this fact. > As for redefinitions, feminists pushed for the recent FBI expansion that makes forced fallatio rape but not forced cunnilingus. This is not true. The new summary of the change for the FBI includes: "or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim". > They also pushed for the definition to be forced penetration by the accused, excluding cases where a man is forced to penetrate by the women. The FBI definition still has problems, for sure. It focuses far too much on penetration as rape rather than non-consensual sexual contact. However, there were a wide variety of voices, feminist and not, that noted this when the FBI made its change and are continuing to call for more change. Like I said, there are many voices in feminism, some of which call for things that are shortsighted or don't make sense. To claim that this is wholly representative of feminism is what creates a strawman. > Please tell me more about derailing by insulting. As a man you do not face systematic discrimination and power imbalance due to your gender, that is why I mentioned it. When someone complains about men online, you are not seriously impacted due to your gender. > As usual, those voices (despite being some prolific and vocal, really being the face of feminism today) are No True Scotsman'ed out of being feminists. I made no such fallacy. Those voices exist and are associated with feminism. However, they are not the total representation of feminist voices and to make it seem as though they are is not talking about serious issues in good faith.

aroch 13y ago

>This is not true at all. In cases where fathers seek custody, they have a good chance of gaining custody or arriving at a shared custody arrangement. ~18% of fathers are the custodial parent. Shared custody favors the mothers in most circumstances. >60% of of fathers (regardless of custodial status) are required to pay child support to the mother. On average, women are awarded more child support than men -- Women also receive >85% of all child support paid every year. >Are you serious? When someone points out that most rapes are committed by men they aren't saying all men are rapists. Also, there has been tremendous effort to expand definitions of rape, esp. from a legal standpoint, to be more inclusive of sexual assault as it happens, whether it be to men or women and whether committed by a man or woman. Then why are we pushing campaigns to teach men not to rape but not women? Why are colleges around the US putting students through rape awareness education only telling men not to rape? As for redefinitions, feminists pushed for the recent FBI expansion that makes forced fallatio rape but not forced cunnilingus. They also pushed for the definition to be forced penetration by the accused, excluding cases where a man is forced to penetrate by the women. >Please, tell me more about how someone venting about men oppresses you. Please tell me more about derailing by insulting. >You are so obsessed with straw feminists that this is ridiculous. Like anything, there are many different voices and opinions that use the label feminism, but you seem to rather want to ignore any social problems in favor of blaming women. As usual, those voices (despite being some prolific and vocal, really being the face of feminism today) are No True Scotsman'ed out of being feminists.

king_jester 13y ago
> ~18% of fathers are the custodial parent. Shared custody favors the mothers in most circumstances. This is correct, the overall rate is low. However, this doesn't take into account rates of fathers seeking custody. About 50% of fathers seeking primary custody in divorce cases are granted such custody. It should be noted that fathers generally do not see primary custody as frequently as women in these cases, which skews the overall rate. > 60% of of fathers (regardless of custodial status) are required to pay child support to the mother. I don't dispute this. However, rates of payout are different from legal obligation to pay. Any person, man or woman, receiving child support are more likely to only receive some partial sum of child support, if any. Moreover, there is already income inequality for women in general in the US, this will have a bearing on whether or not fathers, who are statistically more likely to be better paid, have to pay child support. > On average, women are awarded more child support than men -- Women also receive 85% of all child support paid every year. As you yourself noted, women are much more likely to be performing primary custody and care for a child, we would then expect that women receive more child support then men in such an arrangement. As I mentioned before, this is a bit misleading as many people don't receive full amounts of child support or have some kind of informal support arrangement that is not court ordered. > Then why are we pushing campaigns to teach men not to rape but not women? Why are colleges around the US putting students through rape awareness education only telling men not to rape? Rape and sexual assault is overwhelmingly committed by men. Prevention messages and campaigns are targeted this way for this reason. That is not to say that they deny that women can commit sexual assault, but rather that a primary problem is behaviors committed by people who are men. Campaigns that focus on women's behavior are not addressing this fact. > As for redefinitions, feminists pushed for the recent FBI expansion that makes forced fallatio rape but not forced cunnilingus. This is not true. The new summary of the change for the FBI includes: "or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim". > They also pushed for the definition to be forced penetration by the accused, excluding cases where a man is forced to penetrate by the women. The FBI definition still has problems, for sure. It focuses far too much on penetration as rape rather than non-consensual sexual contact. However, there were a wide variety of voices, feminist and not, that noted this when the FBI made its change and are continuing to call for more change. Like I said, there are many voices in feminism, some of which call for things that are shortsighted or don't make sense. To claim that this is wholly representative of feminism is what creates a strawman. > Please tell me more about derailing by insulting. As a man you do not face systematic discrimination and power imbalance due to your gender, that is why I mentioned it. When someone complains about men online, you are not seriously impacted due to your gender. > As usual, those voices (despite being some prolific and vocal, really being the face of feminism today) are No True Scotsman'ed out of being feminists. I made no such fallacy. Those voices exist and are associated with feminism. However, they are not the total representation of feminist voices and to make it seem as though they are is not talking about serious issues in good faith.