7 ms·

As an individual, all these "know your customer" and "anti-money laundering" laws are a massive drag. When I moved to the UK it was nearly impossible to open a

by jzwinck 13y ago

As an individual, all these "know your customer" and "anti-money laundering" laws are a massive drag. When I moved to the UK it was nearly impossible to open a personal account (despite already having secured the right to work from the government--which vetting is quite substantial). The bank wanted utility bills with my residential address, but clearly I needed a bank account to get a home and utilities. It took four visits to the bank branch to get this sorted, each time resulting in more excuses about how they couldn't help because of KYC, AML, and CYA. If they want to fight money laundering, fine, give me an account with a minimal cash flow limit or some other restrictions. But the modern regulatory regime has infected retail banking to such a degree that normal humans with good jobs can no longer open an account at all. Clearly professional criminals continue to work the system just fine, meanwhile.

slashdotaccount 13y ago
That's why cryptocurrencies are so good. Nobody can deny you when creating an account or moving your money.
- jzwinck 13y ago
  How would that have helped me pay my electric bill? I mean sure, if the electric company wanted to support it, OK, but they'd sooner support credit cards or PayPal, don't you think?
  - slashdotaccount 13y ago
    I mean, the perspective. I don't like this system when you need a bank account to get a home and utilities. Why can't you use cash? I don't like that the bank wanted your utility bills with your residential address just to create an account for you. What for? They want to control everything. I just don't like that.
    - bruceboughton 13y ago
      You can just use cash if you have a key meter like millions of people in the UK. You don't need an account.
      - makomk 13y ago
        You'll pay a hefty premium for that though - it's just one of the ways life is more expensive for the poor than for the wealthy.
    - aestra 13y ago
      I don't need a bank account for utilities in the US. The easiest way to pay is by check my mail or credit card online but if you did not have a bank account you can pay in person or get a money order or maybe even a prepaid debit card?
      - waps 13y ago
        Note that the law requires that all debts, public and private, can be settled using legal tender (ie. cash). In practice this is mostly implemented by demanding the person pay cash at a post office. You do not need a bank account to pay for utilities in the US. I'm not saying not having one will be very pleasant though.
        syntern 13y ago
        > You do not need a bank account to pay for utilities in the US. I'm not saying not having one will be very pleasant though. I came to the conclusion that in the US, if you have everything that people usually have (SSN, bank account, credit card, residential address, phone number, car, drivers license), you will be treated well. Miss just one on list, and people will assume that something is wrong with you, and it probably triggers a few warning signs (e.g. in fraud detection systems). It may be coming from the fact that homeless and criminal elements usually miss a few on the list, so it was considered an easy signal for such pre-filtering, however, moving from a different country has the same signals, triggering multiple false alarms.
- watt 13y ago
  Or just use HSBC, apparently.
greghinch 13y ago
As someone who just went through this, an FYI for anyone else in this situation: Lloyds Bank will let you open a current account with just a US passport and a UK work visa, no other docs needed. HSBC has a similar account you can get, but, well, see parent story...
- mseebach 13y ago
  Even Lloyds is hit and miss. A general strategy that seems to work is to gather as much documentation as you can (work contract, flat lease, any government paperwork, something that documents your address and status where you come from, anything with the address you live at, even if it doesn't have your name on it etc) and hit the main street banks from one end, eventually one will bite. Don't worry which one you get, you can easily change it later - all you need is for any bank to send you a statement.
  - greghinch 13y ago
    I was actually at my 3rd bank trying to open an account, but without any other documentation than my passport & visa. I think it was Halifax. The guy I was speaking went in back for a bit, and per usual said "I'm sorry but without proof of address we can't open an account for you." When I started lamenting my sense of defeat to him about UK banks, he said "okay look, I'm not supposed to say this, but off the record, if you go down the street to Lloyds, they have a special process for US citizens where you can just open an account with a passport." Sure enough I went down the road, and after making yet another appointment (an appointment to open a bank account? really Britain…), they confirmed that indeed they do open accounts for US citizens with just a passport. So I feel pretty confident in recommending Lloyds in this case.
    - mseebach 13y ago
      Lloyds is probably better than average since at least at some point they had a formal process for getting an account without proof of address. But my wife was asked for proof of address there (which she was able to provide) and my friend failed to get an account , but got one at Halifax. I have a few more secondhand anecdotes about other people who was turned away at Lloyds, but taken on at Barclay or HSBC. I think the case is that it's a rather non-deterministic process and the outcome depends a lot on exactly which manager you talk to and what their mood is like that day.
jotm 13y ago
You need to prove where you lived for the last 3 years. Oh, you don't have paper bills? Your country is very progressive, too bad. Moved around? Well, you need a UK address or at least a rental agreement. Also showing your current bank account statements will help. But we'd rather refuse to open this simple checking account just because (...we're busy laundering money :-)...). And no one gives you the exact goddamn reason or a simple solution.
- mjblack 13y ago
  Paperless billing still has a bill that you can print out, it just means that you wont be mailed a statement every month.
  - michaelt 13y ago
    Documents produced on a home printer are meaningless for identity or address verification. Anyone can open the PDF in inkscape and make it say any name, address or date they like. Isn't it more fraudulent to give the bank home-made documents than to give them nothing? At least when you give then nothing you're being honest about what you're giving them.
    - arjie 13y ago
      Yeah, but that modification is forgery and fraud. In all honesty, I could probably replicate a paper bank statement by doing the same thing. The crime is in the manipulation. As for me, I continue to print out bank statements on university printers and have everyone from embassies to landlords accept them. No one I've met believes that going to your bank's website and printing out the PDF they give you is fraudulent.
      - thisone 13y ago
        I was on the phone to British Gas complaining that I suddenly stopped receiving paper statements. The agent on the phone got really helpful all of a sudden when I told him I needed the paper bills for proof of identity. Turns out he had just gone through the whole debacle himself. He had to show a bank statement, but he only has an online account. Went to the bank to get a statement printed and stamped, and whoever he went to turn it in to still refused it because it hadn't been mailed. Personally, I don't want to give the BA any easy reason to reject my visa applications, I get all the mailed proof of address I can.
lgeek 13y ago
You don't really need a bank account to rent a home. In fact, at my first place I've only paid rent with cash or by debit card for almost one year, and it was an agency. Private landlords tend to be even more flexible, basically the ones I've had only cared about being paid on time, not how.
- gaius 13y ago
  How do you have a debit card with a bank account to attach it to?
  - wprl 13y ago
    Presumably pre-paid credit/debit card (bought with cash a at gas station, grocery store, etc.).
walshemj 13y ago
Yeah its bizarre I had to jump through hoops in the UK to open a new ISA account (tax free savings) even if I am a customer of the bank all ready. Its not like I turn up with with 50k in 500 euro bills and want to open an account that day.
memracom 13y ago
When I did this I got a letter from my employer and then took that to the same branch of the same bank where my employer did their banking. It worked.

by jzwinck 13y ago

slashdotaccount 13y ago

That's why cryptocurrencies are so good. Nobody can deny you when creating an account or moving your money.

jzwinck 13y ago
How would that have helped me pay my electric bill? I mean sure, if the electric company wanted to support it, OK, but they'd sooner support credit cards or PayPal, don't you think?
- slashdotaccount 13y ago
  I mean, the perspective. I don't like this system when you need a bank account to get a home and utilities. Why can't you use cash? I don't like that the bank wanted your utility bills with your residential address just to create an account for you. What for? They want to control everything. I just don't like that.
  - bruceboughton 13y ago
    You can just use cash if you have a key meter like millions of people in the UK. You don't need an account.
    - makomk 13y ago
      You'll pay a hefty premium for that though - it's just one of the ways life is more expensive for the poor than for the wealthy.
  - aestra 13y ago
    I don't need a bank account for utilities in the US. The easiest way to pay is by check my mail or credit card online but if you did not have a bank account you can pay in person or get a money order or maybe even a prepaid debit card?
    - waps 13y ago
      Note that the law requires that all debts, public and private, can be settled using legal tender (ie. cash). In practice this is mostly implemented by demanding the person pay cash at a post office. You do not need a bank account to pay for utilities in the US. I'm not saying not having one will be very pleasant though.
      - syntern 13y ago
        > You do not need a bank account to pay for utilities in the US. I'm not saying not having one will be very pleasant though. I came to the conclusion that in the US, if you have everything that people usually have (SSN, bank account, credit card, residential address, phone number, car, drivers license), you will be treated well. Miss just one on list, and people will assume that something is wrong with you, and it probably triggers a few warning signs (e.g. in fraud detection systems). It may be coming from the fact that homeless and criminal elements usually miss a few on the list, so it was considered an easy signal for such pre-filtering, however, moving from a different country has the same signals, triggering multiple false alarms.
watt 13y ago
Or just use HSBC, apparently.

greghinch 13y ago

As someone who just went through this, an FYI for anyone else in this situation: Lloyds Bank will let you open a current account with just a US passport and a UK work visa, no other docs needed. HSBC has a similar account you can get, but, well, see parent story...

mseebach 13y ago
Even Lloyds is hit and miss. A general strategy that seems to work is to gather as much documentation as you can (work contract, flat lease, any government paperwork, something that documents your address and status where you come from, anything with the address you live at, even if it doesn't have your name on it etc) and hit the main street banks from one end, eventually one will bite. Don't worry which one you get, you can easily change it later - all you need is for any bank to send you a statement.
- greghinch 13y ago
  I was actually at my 3rd bank trying to open an account, but without any other documentation than my passport & visa. I think it was Halifax. The guy I was speaking went in back for a bit, and per usual said "I'm sorry but without proof of address we can't open an account for you." When I started lamenting my sense of defeat to him about UK banks, he said "okay look, I'm not supposed to say this, but off the record, if you go down the street to Lloyds, they have a special process for US citizens where you can just open an account with a passport." Sure enough I went down the road, and after making yet another appointment (an appointment to open a bank account? really Britain…), they confirmed that indeed they do open accounts for US citizens with just a passport. So I feel pretty confident in recommending Lloyds in this case.
  - mseebach 13y ago
    Lloyds is probably better than average since at least at some point they had a formal process for getting an account without proof of address. But my wife was asked for proof of address there (which she was able to provide) and my friend failed to get an account , but got one at Halifax. I have a few more secondhand anecdotes about other people who was turned away at Lloyds, but taken on at Barclay or HSBC. I think the case is that it's a rather non-deterministic process and the outcome depends a lot on exactly which manager you talk to and what their mood is like that day.

jotm 13y ago

You need to prove where you lived for the last 3 years. Oh, you don't have paper bills? Your country is very progressive, too bad. Moved around? Well, you need a UK address or at least a rental agreement. Also showing your current bank account statements will help. But we'd rather refuse to open this simple checking account just because (...we're busy laundering money :-)...). And no one gives you the exact goddamn reason or a simple solution.

mjblack 13y ago
Paperless billing still has a bill that you can print out, it just means that you wont be mailed a statement every month.
- michaelt 13y ago
  Documents produced on a home printer are meaningless for identity or address verification. Anyone can open the PDF in inkscape and make it say any name, address or date they like. Isn't it more fraudulent to give the bank home-made documents than to give them nothing? At least when you give then nothing you're being honest about what you're giving them.
  - arjie 13y ago
    Yeah, but that modification is forgery and fraud. In all honesty, I could probably replicate a paper bank statement by doing the same thing. The crime is in the manipulation. As for me, I continue to print out bank statements on university printers and have everyone from embassies to landlords accept them. No one I've met believes that going to your bank's website and printing out the PDF they give you is fraudulent.
    - thisone 13y ago
      I was on the phone to British Gas complaining that I suddenly stopped receiving paper statements. The agent on the phone got really helpful all of a sudden when I told him I needed the paper bills for proof of identity. Turns out he had just gone through the whole debacle himself. He had to show a bank statement, but he only has an online account. Went to the bank to get a statement printed and stamped, and whoever he went to turn it in to still refused it because it hadn't been mailed. Personally, I don't want to give the BA any easy reason to reject my visa applications, I get all the mailed proof of address I can.

lgeek 13y ago

You don't really need a bank account to rent a home. In fact, at my first place I've only paid rent with cash or by debit card for almost one year, and it was an agency. Private landlords tend to be even more flexible, basically the ones I've had only cared about being paid on time, not how.

gaius 13y ago
How do you have a debit card with a bank account to attach it to?
- wprl 13y ago
  Presumably pre-paid credit/debit card (bought with cash a at gas station, grocery store, etc.).

walshemj 13y ago

Yeah its bizarre I had to jump through hoops in the UK to open a new ISA account (tax free savings) even if I am a customer of the bank all ready. Its not like I turn up with with 50k in 500 euro bills and want to open an account that day.

memracom 13y ago

When I did this I got a letter from my employer and then took that to the same branch of the same bank where my employer did their banking. It worked.