5 ms·

Sadly, Pandora Is Still Going Bankrupt

47 points by peter123 17y ago

mr_eel 17y ago
Well, that's what happens when you pin your business model on content you don't own. It sucks, because labels and consequently artists will be missing out on the revenue and promotion that might come from wider web broadcasting.
- riffic 17y ago
  traditional radio has been in business for decades, with a similar business model. they pay the record labels nothing.
  - mr_eel 17y ago
    Not true. Traditional radio stations do pay royalties.
    - anamax 17y ago
      They pay royalties to song-writers but not performers.
    - riffic 17y ago
      "For years, stations have paid royalties to composers and publishers when they played their songs. But they enjoy a federal exemption when paying the performers and record labels because, they argue, the airplay sells music." http://articles.latimes.com/2007/may/21/business/fi-radio21 http://articles.latimes.com/2007/may/21/business/fi-radio21
      - mr_eel 17y ago
        Well, that's interesting to know. That's certainly not how it works in Australia, which coloured my perception of things.
- rubinelli 17y ago
  Good observation. I was listening to Chris Anderson's Free on the commute home, and an interesting case he mentions is how, back in the XIX century, radios created their own label, BMI, so they didn't have to pay royalties that would render their business model completely inviable. I think that whoever succeeds in this area will do something very similar, working with indie artists from the very beginning, maybe even producing their albums.
  - decode 17y ago
    Lawrence Lessig also talks about that case in this great TED talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/larry_lessig_says_the_law_is_strangling_creativity.html http://www.ted.com/talks/larry_lessig_says_the_law_is_strang...
jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
Let's get this logic straight: I promote your songs 1 billion times to people, and I'm willing to give you 25% of what I make. Yet, you want more to the point that I go out of business and you get 0% revenue and promote your songs 0 billion times. They wonder why we pirate songs and they're losing money.
- tptacek 17y ago
  Let me get this straight: you think the terms under which I'm willing to provide a service for are egregious, and I'm unwilling to negotiate, so you're simply going to take what you want. Your critique of the industry would be more trenchant if it wasn't tipped with rationalization. Books are pretty expensive too. Authors --- publishers, even --- make virtually no money on most titles. And yet! They won't make them available for free download! Let's take the books, too!
  - Dobbs 17y ago
    >They won't make them available for free download! Yea they do check out the public library system. Also if you like scifi check out Baen free library. There are also a few articles on the results of them giving away many of their books for free.
    - Tichy 17y ago
      To be fair, the libraries also stock music and movies (at least in Germany they do).
  - gruseom 17y ago
    The music industry can stand on "principle" (that's what they call their sclerotic conception of their own self-interest) all they want. It couldn't be clearer that reality is speaking otherwise. They seem to me like an angry guy standing on a rock, shaking his fist at the tide rising around him. Pretty soon they'll be washed away. It reminds me of what Martin Amis said to Salman Rushdie after the fatwa: "It could have happened to a nicer guy." The spectacle of the music industry portraying itself as "good" and music fans as "evil" is a great comic irony of our time.
pchristensen 17y ago
Pandora is charging $0.99 for premium accounts that let you listen to over 40 hours/month. That's $.025 per hour (less if you listen more). People pay $3 for a 10 second ring tone. Charge more!!!!! People love and highly value your service. There are many, many people who would rather pay $5, $10, $20 or more per month to ensure that Pandora stays alive. How about limiting the number of songs you can listen to on the free iPhone client and selling a premium client for $9.99? They have 200K iPhone users. I love Pandora, but they're not trying very hard to monetize.

47 points by peter123 17y ago

Well, that's what happens when you pin your business model on content you don't own. It sucks, because labels and consequently artists will be missing out on the revenue and promotion that might come from wider web broadcasting.

riffic 17y ago
traditional radio has been in business for decades, with a similar business model. they pay the record labels nothing.
- mr_eel 17y ago
  Not true. Traditional radio stations do pay royalties.
  - anamax 17y ago
    They pay royalties to song-writers but not performers.
  - riffic 17y ago
    "For years, stations have paid royalties to composers and publishers when they played their songs. But they enjoy a federal exemption when paying the performers and record labels because, they argue, the airplay sells music." http://articles.latimes.com/2007/may/21/business/fi-radio21 http://articles.latimes.com/2007/may/21/business/fi-radio21
    - mr_eel 17y ago
      Well, that's interesting to know. That's certainly not how it works in Australia, which coloured my perception of things.
rubinelli 17y ago
Good observation. I was listening to Chris Anderson's Free on the commute home, and an interesting case he mentions is how, back in the XIX century, radios created their own label, BMI, so they didn't have to pay royalties that would render their business model completely inviable. I think that whoever succeeds in this area will do something very similar, working with indie artists from the very beginning, maybe even producing their albums.
- decode 17y ago
  Lawrence Lessig also talks about that case in this great TED talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/larry_lessig_says_the_law_is_strangling_creativity.html http://www.ted.com/talks/larry_lessig_says_the_law_is_strang...

jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

Let's get this logic straight: I promote your songs 1 billion times to people, and I'm willing to give you 25% of what I make. Yet, you want more to the point that I go out of business and you get 0% revenue and promote your songs 0 billion times. They wonder why we pirate songs and they're losing money.

tptacek 17y ago
Let me get this straight: you think the terms under which I'm willing to provide a service for are egregious, and I'm unwilling to negotiate, so you're simply going to take what you want. Your critique of the industry would be more trenchant if it wasn't tipped with rationalization. Books are pretty expensive too. Authors --- publishers, even --- make virtually no money on most titles. And yet! They won't make them available for free download! Let's take the books, too!
- Dobbs 17y ago
  >They won't make them available for free download! Yea they do check out the public library system. Also if you like scifi check out Baen free library. There are also a few articles on the results of them giving away many of their books for free.
  - Tichy 17y ago
    To be fair, the libraries also stock music and movies (at least in Germany they do).
- gruseom 17y ago
  The music industry can stand on "principle" (that's what they call their sclerotic conception of their own self-interest) all they want. It couldn't be clearer that reality is speaking otherwise. They seem to me like an angry guy standing on a rock, shaking his fist at the tide rising around him. Pretty soon they'll be washed away. It reminds me of what Martin Amis said to Salman Rushdie after the fatwa: "It could have happened to a nicer guy." The spectacle of the music industry portraying itself as "good" and music fans as "evil" is a great comic irony of our time.

pchristensen 17y ago

Pandora is charging $0.99 for premium accounts that let you listen to over 40 hours/month. That's $.025 per hour (less if you listen more). People pay $3 for a 10 second ring tone. Charge more!!!!! People love and highly value your service. There are many, many people who would rather pay $5, $10, $20 or more per month to ensure that Pandora stays alive. How about limiting the number of songs you can listen to on the free iPhone client and selling a premium client for $9.99? They have 200K iPhone users. I love Pandora, but they're not trying very hard to monetize.