5 ms·

If any of them have manage to ingest any of the snow, then they could be subject to long term internal exposure and depending on the type of source, it could be

If any of them have manage to ingest any of the snow, then they could be subject to long term internal exposure and depending on the type of source, it could be very difficult to scan for.

toomuchtodo 13y ago
Once a radioactive source is in your body, even alpha radiation will kill you.
- jackweirdy 13y ago
  A note about your choice of the word "even" - Alpha radiation will kill you a lot more effectively than Gamma when it's inside you. This is for the same reason it's not damaging outside - Alpha radiation doesn't travel very far before being absorbed. When held close to skin, the majority is absorbed by the top layers of flesh and only a small amount will penetrate deeper. Conversely, when inside you, only a small amount will escape your body.
sliverstorm 13y ago
I'm still confused why the snow was radioactive. Snow = water. Did it form around radioactive particles?
- frankydp 13y ago
  The low on the 13th was 33 around Fukushima. If the humidity was low enough it would not be impossible to have ground level or especially 250ft off the water snow. EDIT: misread your question. If the steam was radiated it "could" carry that downwind but the nature of decay would greatly reduce the possibility for anything at the size of snow to stay frozen at sea level.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    Right, but to my understanding water can't become radioactive. It can contain radioactive things, but H2O doesn't turn radioactive. So I'm wondering why the snow was radioactive.
    - moocowduckquack 13y ago
      It may have nucleated around radioactive particles in the plume.
      - awakeasleep 13y ago
        We're all aware that seems feasible to a non-expert. Right now we're looking for someone who knows how to calculate possible radiation levels of snow.
        moocowduckquack 13y ago
        here ya go - "Tracking Radioactive Fallout from the Fukushima Dai-ichi Accident in Arctic Snow" http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2011AGUFM.C33A0632O http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2011AGUFM.C33A0632O
  - frankydp 13y ago
    wont let me reply, radionuclides can be aqueous check out HTO and free-water tritium(FWT) in google that will get you what you are looking for. TLDR they bond with organics and other stuff in the water, and snow initiates around particulates.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      Protip: Even if "reply" is missing, just open the "link" to the comment you want to reply to. Viola. (Now just watch as pg fixes that)
      - jrockway 13y ago
        This "bug" has been around for years, so I'm hoping it's intentional :)
- adamtj 13y ago
  Snowflakes, like other precipitation, form around some sort of condensation nucleus -- in other words, dust. Pure snow and fresh rain is actually pretty dirty. You might have noticed how clean windows won't be clean after they get rained on and it dries. It seems plausible to me that some of the radioactive particles would be a form that could be incorporated into snowflakes, but I'm not an expert. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    Yes, this is what I was thinking might have happened, but I wasn't certain.
    - Houshalter 13y ago
      I found your username ironic given the discussion of cloud seeding.
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  Yes, the there aren't any long lived radionuclides of Hydrogen or Oxygen, but their can be radionuclide contamination of water [1]. The question then would be "which ones?" which would be covered in the Navy report on the incident. (and contrary to the article radiation decon drills are actually standard operating procedure according to my Navy friends [2]) The USS Ronald Regan has a complement of over 5,600 souls when steaming with the air wing assigned to it. If the number '70' is accurate then it would suggest that between 1.25 and 2.1% of the sailors exhibited symptoms that might be linked to radiation exposure. In the specific instance of Thyroid Disease some studies [3] have the baseline incidence of this disease in the range of .35% for women and .05% for men. I don't know if the Navy publishes the baseline incident risk for various diseases on their ships and crews. [1] http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/rulesregs/sdwa/radionuclides/index.cfm http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/rulesregs/sdwa/radionuclides/i... [2] Remember the USS Ronald Regan has a couple of hundred MW of nuclear power reactors in their hull, so they train for radiation emergencies. [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7641412 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7641412

If any of them have manage to ingest any of the snow, then they could be subject to long term internal exposure and depending on the type of source, it could be very difficult to scan for.

toomuchtodo 13y ago

Once a radioactive source is in your body, even alpha radiation will kill you.

jackweirdy 13y ago
A note about your choice of the word "even" - Alpha radiation will kill you a lot more effectively than Gamma when it's inside you. This is for the same reason it's not damaging outside - Alpha radiation doesn't travel very far before being absorbed. When held close to skin, the majority is absorbed by the top layers of flesh and only a small amount will penetrate deeper. Conversely, when inside you, only a small amount will escape your body.

sliverstorm 13y ago

I'm still confused why the snow was radioactive. Snow = water. Did it form around radioactive particles?

frankydp 13y ago
The low on the 13th was 33 around Fukushima. If the humidity was low enough it would not be impossible to have ground level or especially 250ft off the water snow. EDIT: misread your question. If the steam was radiated it "could" carry that downwind but the nature of decay would greatly reduce the possibility for anything at the size of snow to stay frozen at sea level.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Right, but to my understanding water can't become radioactive. It can contain radioactive things, but H2O doesn't turn radioactive. So I'm wondering why the snow was radioactive.
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    It may have nucleated around radioactive particles in the plume.
    - awakeasleep 13y ago
      We're all aware that seems feasible to a non-expert. Right now we're looking for someone who knows how to calculate possible radiation levels of snow.
      - moocowduckquack 13y ago
        here ya go - "Tracking Radioactive Fallout from the Fukushima Dai-ichi Accident in Arctic Snow" http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2011AGUFM.C33A0632O http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2011AGUFM.C33A0632O
- frankydp 13y ago
  wont let me reply, radionuclides can be aqueous check out HTO and free-water tritium(FWT) in google that will get you what you are looking for. TLDR they bond with organics and other stuff in the water, and snow initiates around particulates.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    Protip: Even if "reply" is missing, just open the "link" to the comment you want to reply to. Viola. (Now just watch as pg fixes that)
    - jrockway 13y ago
      This "bug" has been around for years, so I'm hoping it's intentional :)
adamtj 13y ago
Snowflakes, like other precipitation, form around some sort of condensation nucleus -- in other words, dust. Pure snow and fresh rain is actually pretty dirty. You might have noticed how clean windows won't be clean after they get rained on and it dries. It seems plausible to me that some of the radioactive particles would be a form that could be incorporated into snowflakes, but I'm not an expert. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Yes, this is what I was thinking might have happened, but I wasn't certain.
  - Houshalter 13y ago
    I found your username ironic given the discussion of cloud seeding.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
Yes, the there aren't any long lived radionuclides of Hydrogen or Oxygen, but their can be radionuclide contamination of water [1]. The question then would be "which ones?" which would be covered in the Navy report on the incident. (and contrary to the article radiation decon drills are actually standard operating procedure according to my Navy friends [2]) The USS Ronald Regan has a complement of over 5,600 souls when steaming with the air wing assigned to it. If the number '70' is accurate then it would suggest that between 1.25 and 2.1% of the sailors exhibited symptoms that might be linked to radiation exposure. In the specific instance of Thyroid Disease some studies [3] have the baseline incidence of this disease in the range of .35% for women and .05% for men. I don't know if the Navy publishes the baseline incident risk for various diseases on their ships and crews. [1] http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/rulesregs/sdwa/radionuclides/index.cfm http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/rulesregs/sdwa/radionuclides/i... [2] Remember the USS Ronald Regan has a couple of hundred MW of nuclear power reactors in their hull, so they train for radiation emergencies. [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7641412 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7641412