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This is why I wouldn't let my kids EVER enlist. The government has no regard for its enlisted. Doesn't take a genius to think our navy would be in harm's way

by zequel 13y ago

This is why I wouldn't let my kids EVER enlist. The government has no regard for its enlisted. Doesn't take a genius to think our navy would be in harm's way during a RADIOACTIVE DISASTER. Reminds me of when soldiers were being electrocuted in showers in Iraq because of totally incompetent contractors wiring electricity near the showers.

joenathan 13y ago
>Reminds me of when soldiers were being electrocuted in showers in Iraq because of totally incompetent contractors wiring electricity near the showers. The details of which are the showers needed water pumps,and the water pumps were not properly grounded.
JanezStupar 13y ago
Sure, better let somebody else's kids take care of the shitty work. I agree wholeheartedly.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  There is, of course, the better option. Invade less people and spy on less people and then the number of people needed and the danger they face is decreased. Additionally, using the military as a social welfare system may not be the great system some think it is. My perspective is skewed however, as being a New Zealander the threat level is zero (except from our so-called allies, who have bombed us in the past - thanks France).
- alan_cx 13y ago
  "Sure, better let somebody else's kids take care of the shitty work." Bullshit. That was never implied, let alone said, you simply made it up.
ams6110 13y ago
Because incompetent electricians never cause death anywhere but in military combat zones?
- zequel 13y ago
  Umm, most electricians, I imagine, know how to ground a pump. Also, it wasn't isolated (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/28/soldier.electrocutions/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/28/soldier.electrocutions/inde...). There were 12 electrocutions. After the first one, you would think there'd be an inquiry.
notdrunkatall 13y ago
I was in the Army for a few years and recently got out. The Army is considered to be the service which is the least concerned with its service members. That said, the Army most certainly DOES have regard for its enlisted. When things like this happen, bad PR follows. Bad PR is bad for a variety of reasons, one of which being that it makes recruiting more difficult. People will be much less likely to join an organization which doesn't care about them, and would thus require more incentives to do so, incentives which cost money. Two: soldiers, airmen, etc go through a pretty intensive training process that lasts several months at a minimum, and that training isn't cheap. By the time you're a full-fledged member of your respective service, your service has a lot of money invested in you, and the more advanced in your career you are, the more valuable you are to them. Soldiers cost more money than you imagine. Three: morale in the military is of paramount importance. Without good morale, operations break down. If a group of soldiers feel that their leadership doesn't care about them, morale quickly goes into the toilet, and that has all sorts of detrimental and pervasive effects. When I was in the Army, I got sick of having to always go to another meeting about another program that, should we need it, was available to us. Everything from PTSD counseling to going outside of your chain of command if necessary to financial counseling to healthcare to complaining about the food, barracks, or what have you - there were channels galore to address grievances. They not only create these programs, but they force you to be aware that they exist. These aren't programs created just for show; they're programs which are created to be used. This isn't the Vietnam Era. The military is an all-volunteer force, and unless the draft comes back, it can't afford to not care about its members. In an organization of many millions of people who constantly deal with difficult, dangerous things like this, incidents will occasionally occur, but they are the exception, rather than the rule.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  Thank you for your comment, hearing from someone involved in these things is excellent so please keep commenting. It's the insider perspectives that makes HN great IMHO. I've just come to this thread after reading the below link on sexual assaults within the military (and yes, I'm way behind on my reading). Do you have any thoughts on it? How can it go in challenged and unaddressed when courses are being offered on trivial things like financial planning? And the PR angle you mention should, at a minimum, have some influence. http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21588131-can-new-campaign-persuade-pentagon-reconsider-its-attitude-breaking-silence http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21588131-can-new...
alan_cx 13y ago
These carriers are the most powerful, expensive war asset any nation state has. The weakest, most vulnerable link is the soft fleshy things on board. Yet, they are the most essential component of the system. You cant replace them at sea, you cant replace or fix parts, they are finite and vulnerable. No people, no carrier. Therefor carrier crews are probably some of the best looked after people in the forces. Perhaps not out of humanity, but to protect that vital asset. I'd go further. I would wager that a US nuclear powered carrier is one of the safest places on earth. After all, it is built to fight in an all out nuclear war and hopefully survive. Perhaps be the last hope if the mainland was devastatingly attacked. It can't possibly be that if its crew are, well, dead. Also, carriers are kind of isolated. They are societies in themselves. The captains are probably more attached and sympathetic to their crews than many other parts of the military.
- hindsightbias 13y ago
  The Navy has been having a lot of problems with their officers: http://www.navytimes.com/article/99999999/CAREERS/302050309 http://www.navytimes.com/article/99999999/CAREERS/302050309 USS Enterprise captain relieved: http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/04/navy.videos/ http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/04/navy.videos/ USS Stennis Captain and his boss get into a biggest dick contest: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/27/us/rear-admiral-charles-m-gaouette-is-disciplined-by-navy.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/27/us/rear-admiral-charles-m-... Pacific commanders: http://nation.time.com/2013/10/03/second-warship-commander-relieved-in-growing-bribery-scandal/ http://nation.time.com/2013/10/03/second-warship-commander-r...

by zequel 13y ago

joenathan 13y ago

>Reminds me of when soldiers were being electrocuted in showers in Iraq because of totally incompetent contractors wiring electricity near the showers. The details of which are the showers needed water pumps,and the water pumps were not properly grounded.

JanezStupar 13y ago

Sure, better let somebody else's kids take care of the shitty work. I agree wholeheartedly.

lostlogin 13y ago
There is, of course, the better option. Invade less people and spy on less people and then the number of people needed and the danger they face is decreased. Additionally, using the military as a social welfare system may not be the great system some think it is. My perspective is skewed however, as being a New Zealander the threat level is zero (except from our so-called allies, who have bombed us in the past - thanks France).
alan_cx 13y ago
"Sure, better let somebody else's kids take care of the shitty work." Bullshit. That was never implied, let alone said, you simply made it up.

ams6110 13y ago

Because incompetent electricians never cause death anywhere but in military combat zones?

zequel 13y ago
Umm, most electricians, I imagine, know how to ground a pump. Also, it wasn't isolated (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/28/soldier.electrocutions/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/28/soldier.electrocutions/inde...). There were 12 electrocutions. After the first one, you would think there'd be an inquiry.

notdrunkatall 13y ago

I was in the Army for a few years and recently got out. The Army is considered to be the service which is the least concerned with its service members. That said, the Army most certainly DOES have regard for its enlisted. When things like this happen, bad PR follows. Bad PR is bad for a variety of reasons, one of which being that it makes recruiting more difficult. People will be much less likely to join an organization which doesn't care about them, and would thus require more incentives to do so, incentives which cost money. Two: soldiers, airmen, etc go through a pretty intensive training process that lasts several months at a minimum, and that training isn't cheap. By the time you're a full-fledged member of your respective service, your service has a lot of money invested in you, and the more advanced in your career you are, the more valuable you are to them. Soldiers cost more money than you imagine. Three: morale in the military is of paramount importance. Without good morale, operations break down. If a group of soldiers feel that their leadership doesn't care about them, morale quickly goes into the toilet, and that has all sorts of detrimental and pervasive effects. When I was in the Army, I got sick of having to always go to another meeting about another program that, should we need it, was available to us. Everything from PTSD counseling to going outside of your chain of command if necessary to financial counseling to healthcare to complaining about the food, barracks, or what have you - there were channels galore to address grievances. They not only create these programs, but they force you to be aware that they exist. These aren't programs created just for show; they're programs which are created to be used. This isn't the Vietnam Era. The military is an all-volunteer force, and unless the draft comes back, it can't afford to not care about its members. In an organization of many millions of people who constantly deal with difficult, dangerous things like this, incidents will occasionally occur, but they are the exception, rather than the rule.

lostlogin 13y ago
Thank you for your comment, hearing from someone involved in these things is excellent so please keep commenting. It's the insider perspectives that makes HN great IMHO. I've just come to this thread after reading the below link on sexual assaults within the military (and yes, I'm way behind on my reading). Do you have any thoughts on it? How can it go in challenged and unaddressed when courses are being offered on trivial things like financial planning? And the PR angle you mention should, at a minimum, have some influence. http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21588131-can-new-campaign-persuade-pentagon-reconsider-its-attitude-breaking-silence http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21588131-can-new...

alan_cx 13y ago

These carriers are the most powerful, expensive war asset any nation state has. The weakest, most vulnerable link is the soft fleshy things on board. Yet, they are the most essential component of the system. You cant replace them at sea, you cant replace or fix parts, they are finite and vulnerable. No people, no carrier. Therefor carrier crews are probably some of the best looked after people in the forces. Perhaps not out of humanity, but to protect that vital asset. I'd go further. I would wager that a US nuclear powered carrier is one of the safest places on earth. After all, it is built to fight in an all out nuclear war and hopefully survive. Perhaps be the last hope if the mainland was devastatingly attacked. It can't possibly be that if its crew are, well, dead. Also, carriers are kind of isolated. They are societies in themselves. The captains are probably more attached and sympathetic to their crews than many other parts of the military.

hindsightbias 13y ago
The Navy has been having a lot of problems with their officers: http://www.navytimes.com/article/99999999/CAREERS/302050309 http://www.navytimes.com/article/99999999/CAREERS/302050309 USS Enterprise captain relieved: http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/04/navy.videos/ http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/04/navy.videos/ USS Stennis Captain and his boss get into a biggest dick contest: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/27/us/rear-admiral-charles-m-gaouette-is-disciplined-by-navy.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/27/us/rear-admiral-charles-m-... Pacific commanders: http://nation.time.com/2013/10/03/second-warship-commander-relieved-in-growing-bribery-scandal/ http://nation.time.com/2013/10/03/second-warship-commander-r...