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This is great - they are making it worse for themselves! Before the Snowden revelations came along nobody took you seriously if you thought we lived in a world

This is great - they are making it worse for themselves! Before the Snowden revelations came along nobody took you seriously if you thought we lived in a world of mass surveillance. Now we all know all too well that we do. As the scandal unravels the government are clinging to the 'terrorism' fig leaf. They haven't got anything else, no other plausible excuse for what they have been up to. Nobody has completely seen through it yet, or, if they have then they haven't shared with the rest of the world exactly what it is that they are hiding. (There is something else going on, the 'al-qaeda' thing is just a ruse, however nobody really believes that it is a complete, total, utter sham of emptiness. We aren't there yet...) They are going to have to squirm for a little bit longer before the grand reveal. Exactly who steps up to do this is not known, however, there are plenty of candidates out there, getting bolder by the day. One thing is for certain though, that grand reveal will happen and, when it does, this NSA spying lark will be put into perspective. That perspective will show the spying story so far to be nothing more than an appetizing 'light snack' before the immensely satisfying main course. Compared to what we have got coming the fall of the Berlin Wall was nothing! Anyone care to guess what the ace is that trumps the government's 'terrorism' card? (There is one!)

mcantelon 13y ago
Nope. So what's this ace of which you speak?
ChristianBundy 13y ago
I'm probably missing something obvious, but what evidence is there to suggest that there's an ace that trumps the government's terrorism card? I want to be optimistic, but I'm not really sold on the idea that we have the information, and that it's just a matter of time until it's released to the public.
- Theodores 13y ago
  Good! A year ago nobody imagined that all of this Snowden stuff would come out, did they? Yet he was clearly working on something that may or may not have worked. The mass surveillance works two ways: to learn/steal the secrets of the citizenry is one way, the other way is to hide secrets from the citizenry. Some people in government are more concerned with people talking about their secrets, their 'noble lies'. This is because, once exposed and once a cover up gets started, they face a serious existential threat. But we need a bit more public humiliation, loss of trust in the government and more silly talk about 'terrorism' to get the climate right for that. However, rest assured, there is at least one 'existential threat' in a holding pattern, just waiting for the perfect storm...
  - javajosh 13y ago
    I've downvoted both your comments because while I appreciate a bit of showmanship, I dislike this kind of rhetoric even more. It's hard to communicate, and if you're not willing to speak plainly about what "threats" and "ace" then you're just an asshole.
    - Theodores 13y ago
      Thanks - really. Please see my third comment (above in thread). I wish I could share more with the HN audience, but I do not want to bring any trouble here! I fish, because maybe there will be a time when I can be more open.
  - alan_cx 13y ago
    Oh do get on with it. Put up or shut up. Otherwise, all I'm seeing is childish usenet style attention seeking.
    - Theodores 13y ago
      There is more to it than 'childish attention seeking'. With the world at large (and not you personally), what is the point in sharing the good stuff, i.e. anything constructive and enlightened? As things stand there are a lot of things worth getting properly upset about - those wars in far off places, the likes of Guantanamo and the Iraq War that was started on false pretences. No heads have rolled for any of these crimes. We have all become de-humanised Good Germans, not really that bothered and incapable of organising meaningful opposition. At least our German friends had a government that knew what was going on and were in charge of the show. We have corporate puppets that cannot think outside of the dogma provided by their respective political parties. Our elected leaders are not that powerful. Standing up to them should not be difficult in the least. Enough time has passed since 2003 for the effect of 'either you are with us or against us' to wear off. People should not let the lies that led to 'shock and awe' be forgotten. We should be regaining our voice to say 'actually, yes, we do want those people that took the world to war on false pretences brought to court'. But this has not happened and is not happening. With this being the case, why should anyone that knows anything really damaging to the government that we have want to damage the government? People have got the government they deserve. However, there is also the matter of fact-based history, and an unwritten obligation to hand on to future generations a fact-based account of our times instead of mutually convenient fairy tales. There is also the matter of justice, e.g. for people in places like Guantanamo. Therefore, although most people - those with the attention span of a TV advert - have proven through their silence and submission that they don't deserve better, 'fact based history' does matter.
sparkie 13y ago
The "protect the children" card. It's already in full use in the UK, with mandatory opt-out porn filtering.
- reginaldjcooper 13y ago
  And sex education filtering.
- dobbsbob 13y ago
  Canada also tried this card unsuccessfully. Lately they've been trumping up phony terrorist busts where they groom crazy people online and sell them inert explosives, then never stop talking about how great their anti terrorist squads are for breaking up plots they themselves plotted
kordless 13y ago
Aliens or AI.
yardie 13y ago
China. They are already engaged in cyberwarfare with the PRC. I haven't met anyone in the security industry that would dispute this. It doesn't generate headlines because no one has actually died. I feel eventually the need of the state will outweigh the diplomatic necessity of maintaining most favoured status with the Chinese.

mcantelon 13y ago

Nope. So what's this ace of which you speak?

ChristianBundy 13y ago

I'm probably missing something obvious, but what evidence is there to suggest that there's an ace that trumps the government's terrorism card? I want to be optimistic, but I'm not really sold on the idea that we have the information, and that it's just a matter of time until it's released to the public.

Theodores 13y ago
Good! A year ago nobody imagined that all of this Snowden stuff would come out, did they? Yet he was clearly working on something that may or may not have worked. The mass surveillance works two ways: to learn/steal the secrets of the citizenry is one way, the other way is to hide secrets from the citizenry. Some people in government are more concerned with people talking about their secrets, their 'noble lies'. This is because, once exposed and once a cover up gets started, they face a serious existential threat. But we need a bit more public humiliation, loss of trust in the government and more silly talk about 'terrorism' to get the climate right for that. However, rest assured, there is at least one 'existential threat' in a holding pattern, just waiting for the perfect storm...
- javajosh 13y ago
  I've downvoted both your comments because while I appreciate a bit of showmanship, I dislike this kind of rhetoric even more. It's hard to communicate, and if you're not willing to speak plainly about what "threats" and "ace" then you're just an asshole.
  - Theodores 13y ago
    Thanks - really. Please see my third comment (above in thread). I wish I could share more with the HN audience, but I do not want to bring any trouble here! I fish, because maybe there will be a time when I can be more open.
- alan_cx 13y ago
  Oh do get on with it. Put up or shut up. Otherwise, all I'm seeing is childish usenet style attention seeking.
  - Theodores 13y ago
    There is more to it than 'childish attention seeking'. With the world at large (and not you personally), what is the point in sharing the good stuff, i.e. anything constructive and enlightened? As things stand there are a lot of things worth getting properly upset about - those wars in far off places, the likes of Guantanamo and the Iraq War that was started on false pretences. No heads have rolled for any of these crimes. We have all become de-humanised Good Germans, not really that bothered and incapable of organising meaningful opposition. At least our German friends had a government that knew what was going on and were in charge of the show. We have corporate puppets that cannot think outside of the dogma provided by their respective political parties. Our elected leaders are not that powerful. Standing up to them should not be difficult in the least. Enough time has passed since 2003 for the effect of 'either you are with us or against us' to wear off. People should not let the lies that led to 'shock and awe' be forgotten. We should be regaining our voice to say 'actually, yes, we do want those people that took the world to war on false pretences brought to court'. But this has not happened and is not happening. With this being the case, why should anyone that knows anything really damaging to the government that we have want to damage the government? People have got the government they deserve. However, there is also the matter of fact-based history, and an unwritten obligation to hand on to future generations a fact-based account of our times instead of mutually convenient fairy tales. There is also the matter of justice, e.g. for people in places like Guantanamo. Therefore, although most people - those with the attention span of a TV advert - have proven through their silence and submission that they don't deserve better, 'fact based history' does matter.

sparkie 13y ago

The "protect the children" card. It's already in full use in the UK, with mandatory opt-out porn filtering.

reginaldjcooper 13y ago
And sex education filtering.
dobbsbob 13y ago
Canada also tried this card unsuccessfully. Lately they've been trumping up phony terrorist busts where they groom crazy people online and sell them inert explosives, then never stop talking about how great their anti terrorist squads are for breaking up plots they themselves plotted

kordless 13y ago

Aliens or AI.

yardie 13y ago

China. They are already engaged in cyberwarfare with the PRC. I haven't met anyone in the security industry that would dispute this. It doesn't generate headlines because no one has actually died. I feel eventually the need of the state will outweigh the diplomatic necessity of maintaining most favoured status with the Chinese.