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Yeah we haven't found any new solutions to old problems for millennia, in fact progress stopped centuries ago. I wish people would just stop trying to improve

• kingkawn 13y ago
  its interesting that you assume I mean then that cynicism is the answer. I think we have an economic structure that uses fear as its primary motivator. Fear of depression, homelessness, suffering, and death. Working toward a solution of quantifiable inspiration would be a much more meaningful approach. I think you can intentionally inspire people, since we all have experienced people who do it to us over and over again. So all that must be done is treat that as an abstract principle rather than intangibility, define it, and apply it more broadly.
  • gress 13y ago
    Your original comment did sound cynical. This comment on the other hand sounds as though it is grounded in a morality.
    • kingkawn 13y ago
      I agree but I am not moralizing, which I believe are different things. If there is an immoral action or event recurrently happening it is because the structure of society is allowing it to happen. It will not be solved through shaming anyone. It makes no more sense to shame poor people who are desperate for welfare than it does to shame wall street bankers. Both are products of the same system, and both groups can be given the space to change themselves through modifying the way things work rather than who is working in them.
      • gress 13y ago
        Shaming and moralizing aren't the same thing either. I agree with you about the structure of the system producing immoral actions, however I think that in order to change the structure, we must recognize the immorality otherwise this is just an empty abstraction.
        • kingkawn 13y ago
          It is finally powerful as an abstraction. Assigning the immorality to individuals is exactly what perpetuates the overall system.
          • gress 13y ago
            Sure - don't assign immorality to individuals. However you have to assign it to something - so what do you assign it to?
            • kingkawn 13y ago
              If someone is acting immorally, rather than condemning them think about how they came to be. Look at how the system corresponds to that. And then, ask how to change that system to encourage different behavior without using more abuse/punishment/rat traps to induce that new systemic output. I think you will find that few people desire to act immorally, but they also are bound within their system. They get defensive when you tell them they have to be different; they know it will not work given the framework they operate within. If instead you ask them how to change the system, allowing them to be better, they can be your ally. I do not think approaching them with a pre-formulated answer will as effectively draft them into the cause as genuinely asking them how they would do it.
              • gress 13y ago
                I'm asking you, and it isn't working. That's not a good start. Also really, while I'm sympathetic to the idea that people's behavior is a largely a product of circumstance, if I ask a poor person who had resorted to crime to survive how to change the system, I expect familiar answers about making the system more fair. If I ask a Wall Street Banker, who is happily extracting maximum profits from the poor, regardless of cost, I expect familiar answers about how they shouldn't make poor economic decisions. I have actually spoken to people at all levels of society, and I haven't heard a lot of great solutions about how to change the system. Since you have either had different results from your conversations, or have ideas of your own, I invite you to share some here.
      • gress 13y ago
        Incidentally the original posting has nothing to do with moralizing.