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I'm not saying border harassment is OK, but it's a pretty big stretch to say the experience of Poitras or Appelbaum is an example of routine behavior. Both of

I'm not saying border harassment is OK, but it's a pretty big stretch to say the experience of Poitras or Appelbaum is an example of routine behavior. Both of them have a seriously adversarial relationship with the US government, it's hard to imagine anything between them and the government is routine. Again, not saying border harassment is right, but I'm not sure it's part of a backslide away from democracy either. Up until relatively recently, openly going after the government of a world power and then frequently traveling there would result in a lot more inconvenience than some questioning at the border. Even in the "free world", I can't imagine many countries that would completely ignore things like that. Poitras and Appelbaum talk a lot about Germany, but if they focused on the German government the way they focus on the American government, I wonder how friendly German border folks would be to them.

andrewcooke 13y ago
i find comments like this a bit odd. didn't it used to be the case that america was the good guy because they tolerated dissent? these days it seems to be that "america is probably no worse than anyone else". well, ok. [edit:] and that's ok; i think it's what "we" (non-americans) think. the trouble is that you're not just one more bully. you're the strongest one in the room.
- StavrosK 13y ago
  I think it is quite a bit worse than "just anyone" else.
- rainsford 13y ago
  Well I think there is a significant amount of room between having no problems at all and being "probably no worse than anyone else", but even the second option is a point worth making in these kinds of discussions because the implication always seems to be that America is especially bad from both a historical and global perspective (something I don't think is very accurate). We have room for improvement, but such improvement seems more likely if we're realistic about our problems.

andrewcooke 13y ago

i find comments like this a bit odd. didn't it used to be the case that america was the good guy because they tolerated dissent? these days it seems to be that "america is probably no worse than anyone else". well, ok. [edit:] and that's ok; i think it's what "we" (non-americans) think. the trouble is that you're not just one more bully. you're the strongest one in the room.

StavrosK 13y ago
I think it is quite a bit worse than "just anyone" else.
rainsford 13y ago
Well I think there is a significant amount of room between having no problems at all and being "probably no worse than anyone else", but even the second option is a point worth making in these kinds of discussions because the implication always seems to be that America is especially bad from both a historical and global perspective (something I don't think is very accurate). We have room for improvement, but such improvement seems more likely if we're realistic about our problems.