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American here. Watching this case intermittently, it's a little hard to fathom the seething anger in India. The matter seems fairly straightforward: - Rule o

American here. Watching this case intermittently, it's a little hard to fathom the seething anger in India. The matter seems fairly straightforward: - Rule of law applies, regardless the person; that's the theory, anyway. In practice, the laws tend to favor the wealthy and powerful; but whatever gets into the books tends to be applied as resources permit. In other words, this had nothing to do with the fact that the diplomat was Indian; it had to do with a point of law. - There are well-known limits to diplomatic immunity. Recall the reckless young American that went around and broke a bunch of car windows in Singapore sometime back. Americans were all upset that he was caned. But on one level, it was quite fair -- any Singaporean would have received the same punishment, and Singapore did not budge on the rule.

wozniacki 13y ago
Ahem. Raymond Allen Davis is a former United States Army soldier, private security firm employee, and contractor with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). On January 27, 2011, Davis killed two reportedly armed men in Lahore, Pakistan. Although the U.S. government contended that he was protected by diplomatic immunity because of his employment with the U.S. Consulate in Lahore, Davis was jailed and criminally charged by Pakistani authorities with double murder and the illegal possession of a firearm. A car coming to aid Davis killed a third Pakistani man in a "hit and run" while speeding on the wrong side of the road. On March 16, 2011, Davis was released after the families of the two killed men were paid $2.4 million in diyya (a form of monetary compensation or blood money). Judges then acquitted him on all charges and Davis immediately departed Pakistan. The incident led to a diplomatic furor and deterioration in Pakistan–United States relations. A major focus of the incident was the U.S.'s assertion that Davis was protected under the principle of diplomatic immunity due to his role as an "administrative and technical official" attached to the Lahore consulate. The U.S. government claimed that Davis was protected under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations and demanded he be released from custody immediately. President Barack Obama asked Pakistan not to prosecute Davis and recognize him as a diplomat, stating, "There's a broader principle at stake that I think we have to uphold." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Allen_Davis_incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Allen_Davis_incident
- allochthon 13y ago
  Yeah, good point. That would seem to be a clear exception to what I wrote.
- genwin 13y ago
  That's murky relevancy since there was a self-defense angle to it.
sjtgraham 13y ago
AFAIK she lacked diplomatic immunity and only had consular immunity, i.e. immunity only extending to consular functions.
sandGorgon 13y ago
The maid in question could have refused to work and returned back to India - but the reality which most Americans dont want to accept is that she would have gotten a salary 1/10 of what she was making there. So she played the american justice system very intelligently. But this is all OK - if anything that is not what is causing the resentment. There is also a case of overreach here. The woman has a case in India registered because she went absconding. Now let's take this in context - India is the only country which has suffered worse in international terrorism. So a maid going AWOL in the US is a pretty big deal. what the American embassy did was unbelievable - get US visas for the whole family of the maid and fly her to the US without going through the Indian authorities. This has everyone pissed mad coming after the heels of the Americans denying access to 26/11 accused Headley. Ergo the anger.
rglovejoy 13y ago
> Recall the reckless young American that went around and broke a bunch of car windows in Singapore sometime back. Americans were all upset that he was caned. But on one level, it was quite fair -- any Singaporean would have received the same punishment, and Singapore did not budge on the rule. I remember when that happened. There were some Americans who were upset that the young man was going to be caned, but there were plenty of other Americans who wholeheartedly approved of the caning and wished we had in here in this country.

wozniacki 13y ago

Ahem. Raymond Allen Davis is a former United States Army soldier, private security firm employee, and contractor with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). On January 27, 2011, Davis killed two reportedly armed men in Lahore, Pakistan. Although the U.S. government contended that he was protected by diplomatic immunity because of his employment with the U.S. Consulate in Lahore, Davis was jailed and criminally charged by Pakistani authorities with double murder and the illegal possession of a firearm. A car coming to aid Davis killed a third Pakistani man in a "hit and run" while speeding on the wrong side of the road. On March 16, 2011, Davis was released after the families of the two killed men were paid $2.4 million in diyya (a form of monetary compensation or blood money). Judges then acquitted him on all charges and Davis immediately departed Pakistan. The incident led to a diplomatic furor and deterioration in Pakistan–United States relations. A major focus of the incident was the U.S.'s assertion that Davis was protected under the principle of diplomatic immunity due to his role as an "administrative and technical official" attached to the Lahore consulate. The U.S. government claimed that Davis was protected under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations and demanded he be released from custody immediately. President Barack Obama asked Pakistan not to prosecute Davis and recognize him as a diplomat, stating, "There's a broader principle at stake that I think we have to uphold." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Allen_Davis_incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Allen_Davis_incident

allochthon 13y ago
Yeah, good point. That would seem to be a clear exception to what I wrote.
genwin 13y ago
That's murky relevancy since there was a self-defense angle to it.

sjtgraham 13y ago

AFAIK she lacked diplomatic immunity and only had consular immunity, i.e. immunity only extending to consular functions.

sandGorgon 13y ago

The maid in question could have refused to work and returned back to India - but the reality which most Americans dont want to accept is that she would have gotten a salary 1/10 of what she was making there. So she played the american justice system very intelligently. But this is all OK - if anything that is not what is causing the resentment. There is also a case of overreach here. The woman has a case in India registered because she went absconding. Now let's take this in context - India is the only country which has suffered worse in international terrorism. So a maid going AWOL in the US is a pretty big deal. what the American embassy did was unbelievable - get US visas for the whole family of the maid and fly her to the US without going through the Indian authorities. This has everyone pissed mad coming after the heels of the Americans denying access to 26/11 accused Headley. Ergo the anger.

rglovejoy 13y ago

> Recall the reckless young American that went around and broke a bunch of car windows in Singapore sometime back. Americans were all upset that he was caned. But on one level, it was quite fair -- any Singaporean would have received the same punishment, and Singapore did not budge on the rule. I remember when that happened. There were some Americans who were upset that the young man was going to be caned, but there were plenty of other Americans who wholeheartedly approved of the caning and wished we had in here in this country.