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When You Criticize Someone, You Make It Harder for that Person to Change
- onedev 13y agoI didn't read the article but based on the title I expect they came to the same revelations that Dale Carnegie did in his famous book "How to Win Friends and Influence People"
- NAFV_P 13y agoI didn't read that book, but I did read Mark 'Chopper' Read's How to Shoot Friends and Influence People.
- calhoun137 13y agoIt's hard to take an article seriously when the title is obviously false.
- grogenaut 13y agoyou are a fucking moron -- worth the karma loss
- ChuckMcM 13y agoWho is the 'you' in this case? The original author? The person who submitted it? The people who upvoted it? You have to give us something to work with here :-). Research done while watching peoples brains at work is always interesting even if the veracity of the brain scan technique is dubious. It is always interesting to ask people how they like to be managed, when you aren't their manager, because one presumes they give more honest answers.
- grogenaut 13y agoOr maybe they're just adeptly managing you? You is whoever you imagine it to be. Why do I have to give you anything to go off of?
- jaredsohn 13y agoAssuming the GP was trying to make a joke, it is is also helpful when giving criticism to have it be for something specific and actionable (which isn't the case for that post.)
- Xcelerate 13y agoEverything alright?
- grogenaut 13y agoYeah. I just stated a real opinion in another thread and lost points. So I had to be a jackass in this thread to get it back. HN karma is about 5BTC each.
- im3w1l 13y agoI think breaking the guidelines, and then ending with something like "worth the karma loss", should be grounds for hellbanning, since apparently downvotes was not sufficient disincentive.
- grogenaut 13y agoSo we should never disagree with anyone? And when should a person change? When someone tells them to or when they realize their convictions may not be right?
- ankitml 13y agocriticizing : you fucking retard can never do this job correctly. disagreeing : there are other ways in which this job can be done and I strongly suggest you should explore those.
- grogenaut 13y agoKindergarten report card: D can't take constructive criticism.
- steven2012 13y agocriticizing: You are not performing very well at your job. disagreeing: You're wrong, you fucking retard.
- ankitml 13y agoThere can be various contexts of disagreement as well as criticism. (http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html) Our both arguments are on extremities of each.
- omegant 13y agoYou disagree, but then you have to think what you really want to happen. If you want that person to change her point of view, it's probable that even if you are completely right with facts backing your possition you will not achieve it just by telling them that they are right. But you don't have to give them the reason either, while usually people rise defenses as a way to protect their self from an "agression", you are able to modify and change their ideas with indirect methods. One way is not talking directly about it but showing the correct way. That way the other person will see what you do and maybe will change voluntarily one she realizes that your method is superior. Another way is telling a story where the topic is touched indirectly, talking about another person and the results of her actions, but not as an example but as if trying to explain another topic. Z
- steven2012 13y agoCoincidentally, in the "Most Popular" links, #6 for me was: "The Fine Art of Tough Love" which seems to, at a high level, contradict this article. http://blogs.hbr.org/2013/12/the-fine-art-of-tough-love/ http://blogs.hbr.org/2013/12/the-fine-art-of-tough-love/
- ChristianMarks 13y agoWhen you downvote someone on HN, you make it harder for that person to change.
- Vektorweg 13y agoIt changes a person, but in a wrong direction, i think.
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- ChrisNorstrom 13y agoSummery: "instead of criticizing someone, ask them about their dreams" What if your dreams are flawed? Nearly everyone's dreams are flawed. The world never works in the way you'd image it to. My mother's harsh criticism of my life's decisions is actually what ended up turning around my life. Harsh reality was not only necessary but the only way out of my endless fantasizing and dreaming. I can understand and agree that positive reinforcement is better than negative criticism but that's assuming the subject eventually found something positive to do. At some point you either sit around and wait until something positive is done so you can praise it, or you suggest positive actions (which is a subtle indirect form of criticism).
- wreegab 13y agoThis article criticizes people who express criticism.
- analog31 13y agoNot to dismiss an interesting study, but it only seems to address the emotional response to criticism. When giving or receiving criticism in a work environment, there is likely to be a rational response of equal or even greater importance. At the very least, an employee who receives criticism will perform some sort of rough mental calculation to determine things like: 1. Is the criticism valid? 2. Is it threatening? These calculations may be influenced, not only by how you deliver the message, but by what information has already been revealed to the employee -- by your behavior, by the corporate history and culture, and by the employee's general knowledge of business trends.
- joshuakarjala 13y agoI think you are over estimating the influence of rationality in peoples response.
- michaelf 13y agoThe author references the work of Barbara Frederickson, a psychologist who had a very popular theory on "Positivity Ratios", a theory that was in part justified by misuse of differential equations from fluid dynamics, and was thoroughly debunked in "The Complex Dynamics of Wishful Thinking: The Critical Positivity Ratio" [1]. There have been several good summaries of this paper and the work that led up to it over the past few months (my favorite being this [2] one). I'd take this author's view with a grain of salt (or something stronger). [1] http://www.physics.nyu.edu/sokal/complex_dynamics_final_clean.pdf http://www.physics.nyu.edu/sokal/complex_dynamics_final_clea... [2] http://narrative.ly/pieces-of-mind/nick-brown-smelled-bull/ http://narrative.ly/pieces-of-mind/nick-brown-smelled-bull/
- agumonkey 13y agoAs a programmer I see this as an investigation/debugging. I try to make sure my assumptions are correct, then try to list all the problems and suggest fixes in the simplest manner in interrogative form so the person clicks deeply and peacefully.
- maximgsaini 13y agoHuman traits are a vast shade of grey, neither black nor white. There is no one-size-fits-all approach. Someone who even attempts this approach is underestimating our diversity (not to disparage this scientific study in any way). Focusing on 'dreams', focusing on 'flaws' or using some other emotion to motivate a person, there cannot be a 'standard' approach. Sometimes it is the 'fear of loss' which works wonders. On someone who wants to be the 'best', it is realization of flaws which might work. But there are several other factors which need to be taken into account, including life circumstances. Keep all options open and be willing to change your strategy quickly in response to how the situation is turning. And sometimes, even if we want to change, the 'monkey' inside us doesn't let us change. Mere realization of a flaw does not guarantee change. It takes a lot of hard work to achieve a personality change. A lot of people aren't capable of that.
- nroose 13y agoI sort of understand this. I really do. And I try hard to be positive and constructive, and to give credit. But I also value the times when people tell me I am wrong and why. And I can't stand the culture of never saying no, even if the question is very clear and to the point and the answer is clearly actually no. None of us are perfect, and that is a good thing.
- lyndonh 13y agoI was open to the idea that the article might be making a good point until I reached the stereotype that Engineers don't have people skills. In my experience, most Engineers have very good people skills and understand that you can't look at the world as a technical problem waiting to be solved.
- ElongatedTowel 13y agoAnd if I criticize myself, do I make it harder for myself to change?
- nicarus1984 13y agoFrom article: "Bottom line: don’t focus on only on weaknesses, but on hopes and dreams. It’s what our brains are wired to do." That's all nice and fuzzy, but I can't say this is true for me - and possibly many other people. Personally, I am interested in self-improvement and receiving criticism (mainly constructive) is the best way for me to make change. Lastly, making broad statements like this demonstrates ignorance on the part of the author around the complexity and diversity of what motivates different people.