3 ms·

I'm going to give you an alternate perspective. I'm in my 40s. I "had some inclinations that way" too. I listened to everyone who told me that people like that

I'm going to give you an alternate perspective. I'm in my 40s. I "had some inclinations that way" too. I listened to everyone who told me that people like that are disgusting freaks, and I tried to keep it suppressed for a long time now, denying it to myself and trying to act "normal," like society expects me to be. Now it's way later and I'm kind of at the end of my rope with long-term clinical depression. I'm pretty sure that within the next few years it's going to come down to a choice between killing myself and transitioning. Only now, my transition options are way worse and I picked up some dependents along the way who are going to be incredibly hurt either way. Maybe I can keep it going like this somehow until I reach the natural end of my miserable life, and for the sake of the people depending on me, I will keep trying. But every year it gets harder and harder to make myself get out of bed and face life hiding inside the shell of a person I'm pretending to be. So, in my considered opinion, no, I don't think anyone would be better off if there were more people like me.

Sssnake 13y ago
There is no reason to believe that SRS will "cure" your depression. Suicide rates stay just as high post-op. Many people undergo the procedure only to find it did not help them at all.
- tesseractive 13y ago
  Oh, I'm well aware of that, though it's a good addition to the discussion. The thing about transitioning is that it's a long process, there are many points where you can turn back if it's not working, and not everyone takes the same steps anyway. For some people, "The Surgery", (sometimes called Sexual Reassignment Surgery, but many people prefer the term Gender Confirmation Surgery, or just "bottom surgery", as opposed to breast implants which are "top surgery"), is the main thing, but for an awful lot of people, it isn't -- even though most non-trans folk seem to think of it that way. For a lot of trans people, living day to day life as their real gender is the important thing, and they're not so hung up on what's between their legs. For some people, hormones help them feel like they're "supposed to", and that's the main thing. For others, they hate their chest, and top surgery is most important. While others may think that Facial Feminization Surgery (FFS) is the most crucial -- not least because for many trans women, FFS is the difference between passing and not passing, which makes an enormous practical difference in day-to-day life and often even in terms of personal safety. For me, I've read a lot about this, including many personal accounts, and heard a number of first hand stories from a group I've started attending. I honestly don't know how things will work out for me if/when I start transitioning. I've heard enough horror stories to go into the process with the appropriate level of fear and caution. But at some point when your life becomes one big well of depression that doesn't respond to medication and you start to lose your ability to function in day-to-day life, there's really nothing left to do but start trying to explore the remaining options. So, I'm not transitioning, but I'm looking into it and trying to figure out what the hell I'm going to do.
- davidtanner 13y ago
  Please cite where you found that suicide rates are just as high post op.
  - davidtanner 13y ago
    Ssnake's assertion is false and provides a good example of the sort of cocksure, wilful ignorance and bigotry trans people have to face every day.
    - bullseye 13y ago
      Replying to yourself to take a snipe at someone else, with no data of your own, is pretty weak. Especially when you are wrong. In just 30 seconds of searching, I found a 2011 long term study conducted in Sweden that concluded the "overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher... particularly death from suicide". I have no stake in this discussion, and if anything, am generally opposed to the topic/lifestyle/whatever. But I have empathy for anyone going through such depression that they ultimately take their own lives. When the primary end goal for many is SRS/GCS, and when the data suggests that leads to higher suicide rates, I find it deplorable that anyone would try to suppress that information. Some might even say that is good example of cocksure, willful ignorance.
      - davidtanner 13y ago
        The full quote is: "The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide." So trans people are at an increased risk of suicide compared to cis people of the gender the trans person transitioned into. The original claim was that trans people are at increased risk of suicide post-op relative to pre-op transsexuals! You're "generally opposed" to a medical intervention that has dramatically improved the lives of many thousands of people over the last 50+ years? You're "generally opposed" to something that I know for a fact has dramatically improved my own life? Go fuck yourself. I'm not wrong, you misrepresented the study and you're a bigot.
      - 13y ago
mseebach 13y ago
Isn't there a middle ground between letting your sexuality define your entire persona (which is what I think the GP is referring to) and being told that you are a disgusting freak and forced to keep your true feelings under wraps? Isn't it plausible that your depression is caused by the trauma of supressing your sexuality, rather than not having the surgery performed? Is there no scenario where the younger you could have explored your sexuality in a supportive environment and not have experienced these trauma - without necessarily going all the way and having surgery done. So, in your words, no pretending, but keeping the shell. I make no claims to understand what it means to be transsexual, I am just trying to understand the dynamics involved.
- rmc 13y ago
  gender identity =/= sexuality. There are lesbian trans women, and straight trans women, and gay cis men and all kinds of permutations.
- tesseractive 13y ago
  When I was younger, there was a lot of information out there to the effect that the only "real" transsexual women knew they were "the wrong gender" from the time they were 4, they hated their boy parts with a fiery passion, and they thought sex was icky until they'd fully transitioned, at which point they just wanted a husband, like any suitably stereotypical woman would. Anyone without this history was really a guy who liked to dress up in women's clothes for sex. I didn't fit all those rules, so I wondered if I was supposed to be a cross dresser. The thing was, the clothes didn't really do much for me from a sex standpoint. As I explored my sexuality, I gradually figured out that I was bisexual and that I was submissive, but sorting out sex things like that didn't really change anything about feeling like I was supposed to be female or feeling depressed because it seemed like I was living the wrong life. Having said that, there is still a lot of ground between keeping everything completely under wraps and having surgery. But for most of my life, I didn't feel comfortable exploring it. I've spent most of my life completely despising my body, so looking at intermediate alternatives meant I had to dwell on that, which was extremely painful. It was easier to spend all my spare time coding or whatever -- and trying really hard not to think about what was wrong -- especially since I wasn't really sure I had any palatable alternatives anyway. At this point, I'm not at all passable, so it's hard for me to take an intermediate step like trying to go out and experience the world as a woman part time to see how it goes. Nevertheless, as I mentioned in another response, there are lots of steps I can take if I decide to that don't require committing to any irreversible surgery. I just have to figure out what makes sense for me.

Sssnake 13y ago

There is no reason to believe that SRS will "cure" your depression. Suicide rates stay just as high post-op. Many people undergo the procedure only to find it did not help them at all.

tesseractive 13y ago
Oh, I'm well aware of that, though it's a good addition to the discussion. The thing about transitioning is that it's a long process, there are many points where you can turn back if it's not working, and not everyone takes the same steps anyway. For some people, "The Surgery", (sometimes called Sexual Reassignment Surgery, but many people prefer the term Gender Confirmation Surgery, or just "bottom surgery", as opposed to breast implants which are "top surgery"), is the main thing, but for an awful lot of people, it isn't -- even though most non-trans folk seem to think of it that way. For a lot of trans people, living day to day life as their real gender is the important thing, and they're not so hung up on what's between their legs. For some people, hormones help them feel like they're "supposed to", and that's the main thing. For others, they hate their chest, and top surgery is most important. While others may think that Facial Feminization Surgery (FFS) is the most crucial -- not least because for many trans women, FFS is the difference between passing and not passing, which makes an enormous practical difference in day-to-day life and often even in terms of personal safety. For me, I've read a lot about this, including many personal accounts, and heard a number of first hand stories from a group I've started attending. I honestly don't know how things will work out for me if/when I start transitioning. I've heard enough horror stories to go into the process with the appropriate level of fear and caution. But at some point when your life becomes one big well of depression that doesn't respond to medication and you start to lose your ability to function in day-to-day life, there's really nothing left to do but start trying to explore the remaining options. So, I'm not transitioning, but I'm looking into it and trying to figure out what the hell I'm going to do.
davidtanner 13y ago
Please cite where you found that suicide rates are just as high post op.
- davidtanner 13y ago
  Ssnake's assertion is false and provides a good example of the sort of cocksure, wilful ignorance and bigotry trans people have to face every day.
  - bullseye 13y ago
    Replying to yourself to take a snipe at someone else, with no data of your own, is pretty weak. Especially when you are wrong. In just 30 seconds of searching, I found a 2011 long term study conducted in Sweden that concluded the "overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher... particularly death from suicide". I have no stake in this discussion, and if anything, am generally opposed to the topic/lifestyle/whatever. But I have empathy for anyone going through such depression that they ultimately take their own lives. When the primary end goal for many is SRS/GCS, and when the data suggests that leads to higher suicide rates, I find it deplorable that anyone would try to suppress that information. Some might even say that is good example of cocksure, willful ignorance.
    - davidtanner 13y ago
      The full quote is: "The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide." So trans people are at an increased risk of suicide compared to cis people of the gender the trans person transitioned into. The original claim was that trans people are at increased risk of suicide post-op relative to pre-op transsexuals! You're "generally opposed" to a medical intervention that has dramatically improved the lives of many thousands of people over the last 50+ years? You're "generally opposed" to something that I know for a fact has dramatically improved my own life? Go fuck yourself. I'm not wrong, you misrepresented the study and you're a bigot.
    - 13y ago

mseebach 13y ago

Isn't there a middle ground between letting your sexuality define your entire persona (which is what I think the GP is referring to) and being told that you are a disgusting freak and forced to keep your true feelings under wraps? Isn't it plausible that your depression is caused by the trauma of supressing your sexuality, rather than not having the surgery performed? Is there no scenario where the younger you could have explored your sexuality in a supportive environment and not have experienced these trauma - without necessarily going all the way and having surgery done. So, in your words, no pretending, but keeping the shell. I make no claims to understand what it means to be transsexual, I am just trying to understand the dynamics involved.

rmc 13y ago
gender identity =/= sexuality. There are lesbian trans women, and straight trans women, and gay cis men and all kinds of permutations.
tesseractive 13y ago
When I was younger, there was a lot of information out there to the effect that the only "real" transsexual women knew they were "the wrong gender" from the time they were 4, they hated their boy parts with a fiery passion, and they thought sex was icky until they'd fully transitioned, at which point they just wanted a husband, like any suitably stereotypical woman would. Anyone without this history was really a guy who liked to dress up in women's clothes for sex. I didn't fit all those rules, so I wondered if I was supposed to be a cross dresser. The thing was, the clothes didn't really do much for me from a sex standpoint. As I explored my sexuality, I gradually figured out that I was bisexual and that I was submissive, but sorting out sex things like that didn't really change anything about feeling like I was supposed to be female or feeling depressed because it seemed like I was living the wrong life. Having said that, there is still a lot of ground between keeping everything completely under wraps and having surgery. But for most of my life, I didn't feel comfortable exploring it. I've spent most of my life completely despising my body, so looking at intermediate alternatives meant I had to dwell on that, which was extremely painful. It was easier to spend all my spare time coding or whatever -- and trying really hard not to think about what was wrong -- especially since I wasn't really sure I had any palatable alternatives anyway. At this point, I'm not at all passable, so it's hard for me to take an intermediate step like trying to go out and experience the world as a woman part time to see how it goes. Nevertheless, as I mentioned in another response, there are lots of steps I can take if I decide to that don't require committing to any irreversible surgery. I just have to figure out what makes sense for me.