6 ms·

I wonder if any of the executives involved with this deal will have a moment of clarity and make a public statement - "I was directly told by representatives of

by dpratt 13y ago

I wonder if any of the executives involved with this deal will have a moment of clarity and make a public statement - "I was directly told by representatives of the U.S. Government that if we did not take this deal there would be direct and material consequences for both my company and myself. Here is the names of the people I met with, here is a log of the meetings. If I am jailed or in some other fashion publicly discredited through an otherwise seemingly unrelated matter in the future, you should always remember that I have made this public statement."

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
ye 13y ago
Think of it from the executives perspective: Option A: keep mouth shut, make a shit ton of money Option B: become a martyr, face prison time People like Snowden are rare.
- pekk 13y ago
  And what if it were very common to take jobs just to hack the internal network, scour it for sensitive-looking data, and dump it all publicly for the sake of fame? I am pretty sure most "executives" would not be happy with that norm
  - ye 13y ago
    My guess is that most people educated enough and promoted enough to get access to such information wouldn't risk years of efforts for potential fame. I'd say most of the whistle-blowers want to remain anonymous.
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  Those aren't the only options. Anyone with any smarts can figure out how to quietly and anonymously leak a lot of these details. The fact is that they were too cowardly to do even that though.
  - ye 13y ago
    As somebody who has been in IT for almost two decades, I can't think of a safe way to get a file off our corporate LAN without leaving a trail leading to me. I realize it's an argument from ignorance fallacy, and maybe there are such ways, but I'm not aware of them.
    - im3w1l 13y ago
      Curiously someone claiming to have a safe way is also arguing from ignorance: "maybe there are ways to detect this, but I am not aware of them".
    - brdrak 13y ago
      With sufficient level of access, it should be possible to erase trails and to create false ones.
  - PeterisP 13y ago
    These aren't the details that need to be 'leaked' anonymously - the whole point for the original suggestion to work as intended requires a public claim from aranking officer of that company; the actual info isn't important but the public testimony is.
  - psykovsky 13y ago
    If they do it anonymously nobody will believe the docs and say they are just elaborate hoaxes by tinfoil hatters...
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  >>People like Snowden are rare. In all honesty, Snowden is a 30 year old single dude, and as far as I know, he doesn't have kids. Do you think he would have done what he did if he had a family to look after? In my opinion a person's first responsibility is to their family. So yeah, if you're married (like these executives probably are) and you're facing the choice between option A and option B, you should absolutely pick option A.
  - im3w1l 13y ago
    Maybe, we, as a community, could lessen that dilemma by helping the families of martyrs.
    - dllthomas 13y ago
      Also, to reward the hiring of whistle-blowers. A company that hires people with a history of raising the alarm should be more trustworthy.
  - ye 13y ago
    Snowden had a girlfriend, AFAIK.
    - mistermumble 13y ago
      A high salary, a hot girlfriend, nice house in Hawaii. Good relationship with parents. I'd say that is a lot to give up, in order to take the risk of being a whistleblower. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10110342/Edward-Snowden-the-quiet-Hawaii-life-of-the-NSA-whistleblower.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1...
  - aagha 13y ago
    What are you saying? That because Snowden didn't have an extension to his own bloodline that it was easy for himself to come forward and blow the whistle?
    - 13y ago
declan 13y ago
Other executives have. Look at what happened to Qwest CEO Joseph Nacchio after challenging illegal NSA warrantless wiretapping requests. (Hint: he just got out of federal prison about two months ago.) http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303983904579093173797712780 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230398390... Mr. Nacchio said he still believes his insider-trading prosecution was government retaliation for rebuffing requests in 2001 from the National Security Agency to access his customers' phone records. His plans to use that belief as a defense at trial never materialized; some of the evidence he wanted to use was deemed classified and barred from being introduced. To Mr. Nacchio, the revelations of former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, who leaked documents saying the agency monitors the email and phone records of Americans, have justified his own stance. He contended the NSA's request was illegal. "I feel vindicated," he said. "I never broke the law, and I never will."
- tptacek 13y ago
  Nacchio defrauded shareholders out of millions of dollars. Let's be careful about who we're valorizing.
  - majke 13y ago
    I'm generally curious about this. I have no idea how to judge Nacchio's career. Can you point some facts proving this point of view? Or maybe: How was his position any different than yours, if you had a request from the NSA that you wouldn't want to fulfil, knowing that rejecting it could destroy your company, what would you do?
    - wavefunction 13y ago
      The issue is, imo, very murky but as I understand it: NSA approached Nacchio and Qwest to do what they were doing with AT&T and Verizon. Qwest had previously helped the NSA intercept all comms in Salt Lake City during the Olympics but told the NSA they weren't interested in cooperating. Nacchio sells some stock. Qwest is suddenly dropped as the favored vendor for a huge government contract leading to a drop in Qwest's share price and earnings. The US federal goverment's position was that Nacchio knew the contract was going to get dropped and cashed out early - insider trading. Nacchio contended that he was just selling stock and that the government had pulled the contract to entrap and prosecute him in the current case.

by dpratt 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

ye 13y ago

Think of it from the executives perspective: Option A: keep mouth shut, make a shit ton of money Option B: become a martyr, face prison time People like Snowden are rare.

pekk 13y ago
And what if it were very common to take jobs just to hack the internal network, scour it for sensitive-looking data, and dump it all publicly for the sake of fame? I am pretty sure most "executives" would not be happy with that norm
- ye 13y ago
  My guess is that most people educated enough and promoted enough to get access to such information wouldn't risk years of efforts for potential fame. I'd say most of the whistle-blowers want to remain anonymous.
InclinedPlane 13y ago
Those aren't the only options. Anyone with any smarts can figure out how to quietly and anonymously leak a lot of these details. The fact is that they were too cowardly to do even that though.
- ye 13y ago
  As somebody who has been in IT for almost two decades, I can't think of a safe way to get a file off our corporate LAN without leaving a trail leading to me. I realize it's an argument from ignorance fallacy, and maybe there are such ways, but I'm not aware of them.
  - im3w1l 13y ago
    Curiously someone claiming to have a safe way is also arguing from ignorance: "maybe there are ways to detect this, but I am not aware of them".
  - brdrak 13y ago
    With sufficient level of access, it should be possible to erase trails and to create false ones.
- PeterisP 13y ago
  These aren't the details that need to be 'leaked' anonymously - the whole point for the original suggestion to work as intended requires a public claim from aranking officer of that company; the actual info isn't important but the public testimony is.
- psykovsky 13y ago
  If they do it anonymously nobody will believe the docs and say they are just elaborate hoaxes by tinfoil hatters...
enraged_camel 13y ago
>>People like Snowden are rare. In all honesty, Snowden is a 30 year old single dude, and as far as I know, he doesn't have kids. Do you think he would have done what he did if he had a family to look after? In my opinion a person's first responsibility is to their family. So yeah, if you're married (like these executives probably are) and you're facing the choice between option A and option B, you should absolutely pick option A.
- im3w1l 13y ago
  Maybe, we, as a community, could lessen that dilemma by helping the families of martyrs.
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    Also, to reward the hiring of whistle-blowers. A company that hires people with a history of raising the alarm should be more trustworthy.
- ye 13y ago
  Snowden had a girlfriend, AFAIK.
  - mistermumble 13y ago
    A high salary, a hot girlfriend, nice house in Hawaii. Good relationship with parents. I'd say that is a lot to give up, in order to take the risk of being a whistleblower. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10110342/Edward-Snowden-the-quiet-Hawaii-life-of-the-NSA-whistleblower.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1...
- aagha 13y ago
  What are you saying? That because Snowden didn't have an extension to his own bloodline that it was easy for himself to come forward and blow the whistle?
  - 13y ago

declan 13y ago

Other executives have. Look at what happened to Qwest CEO Joseph Nacchio after challenging illegal NSA warrantless wiretapping requests. (Hint: he just got out of federal prison about two months ago.) http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303983904579093173797712780 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230398390... Mr. Nacchio said he still believes his insider-trading prosecution was government retaliation for rebuffing requests in 2001 from the National Security Agency to access his customers' phone records. His plans to use that belief as a defense at trial never materialized; some of the evidence he wanted to use was deemed classified and barred from being introduced. To Mr. Nacchio, the revelations of former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, who leaked documents saying the agency monitors the email and phone records of Americans, have justified his own stance. He contended the NSA's request was illegal. "I feel vindicated," he said. "I never broke the law, and I never will."

tptacek 13y ago
Nacchio defrauded shareholders out of millions of dollars. Let's be careful about who we're valorizing.
- majke 13y ago
  I'm generally curious about this. I have no idea how to judge Nacchio's career. Can you point some facts proving this point of view? Or maybe: How was his position any different than yours, if you had a request from the NSA that you wouldn't want to fulfil, knowing that rejecting it could destroy your company, what would you do?
  - wavefunction 13y ago
    The issue is, imo, very murky but as I understand it: NSA approached Nacchio and Qwest to do what they were doing with AT&T and Verizon. Qwest had previously helped the NSA intercept all comms in Salt Lake City during the Olympics but told the NSA they weren't interested in cooperating. Nacchio sells some stock. Qwest is suddenly dropped as the favored vendor for a huge government contract leading to a drop in Qwest's share price and earnings. The US federal goverment's position was that Nacchio knew the contract was going to get dropped and cashed out early - insider trading. Nacchio contended that he was just selling stock and that the government had pulled the contract to entrap and prosecute him in the current case.