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I'm heartened by the response to this, both on Hacker News and elsewhere. Being a trans woman in IT is a bit weird -- because I can do incredible things with m

I'm heartened by the response to this, both on Hacker News and elsewhere. Being a trans woman in IT is a bit weird -- because I can do incredible things with my mind, I'm off the hook my sisters are on, that makes them have to hook. Several roommates ago, I literally came home and found that my (also trans) roommate, who in addition to being trans was also dealing with immigration and had recently lost her job and had begun turning tricks at home. Had I not come home early from the university, I wouldn't have known. And I've always hated the Canadian legal system for making me kick her out. Because just being her roommate, under the previous legislation, would have classified as 'living off the avails' and would have made me legally indistinguishable from her pimp. Just for being her roommate. That's the sort of pauperizing, soul-crushing bullshit that you never, ever forget. Also, I'm a big fan of Katrina Pacey, the lawyer mentioned in the article. I've worked with her a few times on activist stuff (I got into sex worker advocacy after my up-close-and-personal. They can't do it themselves, they go to prison when they try. Well, before today. Go Katrina Pacey! Go Canadian legal system!)

sergiotapia 13y ago
There is a middle ground. It's not "either I work using my brain, or I whore myself out." Many women are waitresses, shopping mall sweepers, store attendants, cashiers, you name it.
- kingkawn 13y ago
  And all of those jobs require your brain too, its just that the byproducts of that use are not considered valuable. Lots of innovation in waitressing if you ask them how they do it rather than what it results in.
- undoware 13y ago
  Fun experiment for you. Go out and get a facial tattoo. Now try to get work. That's still easier than finding honest work when you're transsexual. Don't believe me? I can think of an even more decisive experiment...
  - tw266 13y ago
    Given the immense distress that most trans people seem to experience, I wonder if we (and they) wouldn't be better off if the culture were less supportive of those lifestyles. I had some inclinations that way as a teenager, and I am SO glad I wasn't living in San Francisco or some other place that would encourage me to "be me".
    - heterogenic 13y ago
      How could we be less tolerant than we are now, exactly? (Without human rights violations?) From what I understand, the suicide attempt rate is about fifty percent in that population before transition, so I'd say we're doing a pretty good job of intolerance already.
    - marquis 13y ago
      >the culture were less supportive of those lifestyles. Perhaps you mean if culture were more supportive of those lifestyles, in adulthood? The best time to experiment is as a teenager - we should encourage that, explore now so your adult decisions are made without hesitation. Not allowing experimentation is how we end up with so much teen suicide, where teens are experiencing confusion and oppression.
    - mladenkovacevic 13y ago
      I don't even know how to read this. You are happy that society forced you to "cure" yourself? If a little social pressure was all it took to get you to ignore your "inclinations" I doubt you're on the same spectrum of inclination that the OP finds herself. You also probably shouldn't think that other people with the same inclinations would be as easily influenced by the mere lack of support for the "lifestyle".. which again implies choice rather than certainty.
      - tw266 13y ago
        You're setting up an infalsifiable framework where your worldview must be right (anyone who chooses not to live as trans is not really trans). But ignoring that, there was definitely something going on with me. In elementary school for history dress up day, I wanted to be Betsy Ross. In college, I always hated dealing with chest-thumping groups of males, and I preferred female friends. Halloween was my favorite holiday for obvious reasons. Trans inclination was something long enough and strong enough that an "open-minded" parent or community could have pushed me that way. But over time the importance of those inclinations seemed to fade. I'm a reasonably happy, reasonably successful mostly-straight male. And my success in the workplace and success in family relationships is more important to me than playing with my gender identity. Given what I have heard from trans people, I am pretty sure that I am better off than I would be in a less traditional lifestyle.
- mistercow 13y ago
  I believe the point is that due to ridiculous amounts of prejudice, customer-facing jobs are difficult for a trans person to find.
- marquis 13y ago
  We can't ignore the (sad and backwards) social stigma that trans-women face, where a waitressing job, or any public-facing job, is difficult to apply and be accepted for.
  - sergiotapia 13y ago
    Pardon my ignorance, but when you say trans are you saying "looks like a man and dresses like a woman" or "genetically a man, but looks and acts like a woman (with or without sex reassignment surgery)"? If it's the former, I can understand the reactions of people, it just looks weird; of course people are going to have apprehensions of hiring someone who does dresses like the opposite sex for a public facing job.
    - undoware 13y ago
      Uh, I mean that I'm MTF. Full transition, including FFS, SRS, HRT, and a bunch of other TLAs. So is/was my roommate. That was ironically part of her problem too: most johns who want a trans woman are actually after a so-called 'shemale' (a no-op transsexual; i.e. someone who gets everything done but keeps the original plumbing.) Thanks for asking the question respectfully, I really do like explaining things to curious (although I caution you I'm almost alone in this; please don't make a habit of unsolicited questions to trans people! But for better or worse, I love to talk about myself, so let's use it to spread some understanding and peace for the holidays!)
      - nollidge 13y ago
        I think lots of trans women who can't afford or otherwise don't get SRS would pretty strongly object to being referred to as "shemales".
        undoware 13y ago
        Yes, see, this is why writing benefits from having an editor. Facepalm. First draft: most johns are after a so-called 'shemale' Second draft (removing redundant quotes, following writing advice of Bill Zinsser) most johns are after a so-called shemale Third draft (shorten that sentence! Tighten it up!) most johns are after a shemale ....Fourth draft (after walking away and coming back to my writing, suddenly hearing it): most sex-industry customers are after an MtF no-op transsexual -- a 'shemale', in the derogatory parlance of the industry.
notastartup 13y ago
That is quite tragic that the law had to force you to make difficult decision, especially considering the fact that trans folks are very much marginalized in society because of the ignorance that still floats around unfortunately about gender.
rmc 13y ago
Thanks for getting involved in the HN community. It can be a little cishet male sometimes. Don't let the bastards grind you down.
pmelendez 13y ago
Immigrant in Canada here. While it sucks what it happened to your roommate I have to say that the immigration process is one of the clearest legislations between the options I had. It is slow but it gives you options. Kudos for your job. I worked with a trans woman (a fellow developer too) before and she was one of the sweetest people at the office. She even found a great guy as a boyfriend. Considering all, I think Canada is a friendly environment for transexuals, you have to see how they are treated in Latinamerica.
Sssnake 13y ago
>Because just being her roommate, under the previous legislation, would have classified as 'living off the avails' No it wouldn't. You have to actually be doing something for her. Children, spouses, roommates, etc are all safe. You were still at risk though, because your apartment would qualify as a bowdy house according to the law.

sergiotapia 13y ago

There is a middle ground. It's not "either I work using my brain, or I whore myself out." Many women are waitresses, shopping mall sweepers, store attendants, cashiers, you name it.

kingkawn 13y ago
And all of those jobs require your brain too, its just that the byproducts of that use are not considered valuable. Lots of innovation in waitressing if you ask them how they do it rather than what it results in.
undoware 13y ago
Fun experiment for you. Go out and get a facial tattoo. Now try to get work. That's still easier than finding honest work when you're transsexual. Don't believe me? I can think of an even more decisive experiment...
- tw266 13y ago
  Given the immense distress that most trans people seem to experience, I wonder if we (and they) wouldn't be better off if the culture were less supportive of those lifestyles. I had some inclinations that way as a teenager, and I am SO glad I wasn't living in San Francisco or some other place that would encourage me to "be me".
  - heterogenic 13y ago
    How could we be less tolerant than we are now, exactly? (Without human rights violations?) From what I understand, the suicide attempt rate is about fifty percent in that population before transition, so I'd say we're doing a pretty good job of intolerance already.
  - marquis 13y ago
    >the culture were less supportive of those lifestyles. Perhaps you mean if culture were more supportive of those lifestyles, in adulthood? The best time to experiment is as a teenager - we should encourage that, explore now so your adult decisions are made without hesitation. Not allowing experimentation is how we end up with so much teen suicide, where teens are experiencing confusion and oppression.
  - mladenkovacevic 13y ago
    I don't even know how to read this. You are happy that society forced you to "cure" yourself? If a little social pressure was all it took to get you to ignore your "inclinations" I doubt you're on the same spectrum of inclination that the OP finds herself. You also probably shouldn't think that other people with the same inclinations would be as easily influenced by the mere lack of support for the "lifestyle".. which again implies choice rather than certainty.
    - tw266 13y ago
      You're setting up an infalsifiable framework where your worldview must be right (anyone who chooses not to live as trans is not really trans). But ignoring that, there was definitely something going on with me. In elementary school for history dress up day, I wanted to be Betsy Ross. In college, I always hated dealing with chest-thumping groups of males, and I preferred female friends. Halloween was my favorite holiday for obvious reasons. Trans inclination was something long enough and strong enough that an "open-minded" parent or community could have pushed me that way. But over time the importance of those inclinations seemed to fade. I'm a reasonably happy, reasonably successful mostly-straight male. And my success in the workplace and success in family relationships is more important to me than playing with my gender identity. Given what I have heard from trans people, I am pretty sure that I am better off than I would be in a less traditional lifestyle.
mistercow 13y ago
I believe the point is that due to ridiculous amounts of prejudice, customer-facing jobs are difficult for a trans person to find.
marquis 13y ago
We can't ignore the (sad and backwards) social stigma that trans-women face, where a waitressing job, or any public-facing job, is difficult to apply and be accepted for.
- sergiotapia 13y ago
  Pardon my ignorance, but when you say trans are you saying "looks like a man and dresses like a woman" or "genetically a man, but looks and acts like a woman (with or without sex reassignment surgery)"? If it's the former, I can understand the reactions of people, it just looks weird; of course people are going to have apprehensions of hiring someone who does dresses like the opposite sex for a public facing job.
  - undoware 13y ago
    Uh, I mean that I'm MTF. Full transition, including FFS, SRS, HRT, and a bunch of other TLAs. So is/was my roommate. That was ironically part of her problem too: most johns who want a trans woman are actually after a so-called 'shemale' (a no-op transsexual; i.e. someone who gets everything done but keeps the original plumbing.) Thanks for asking the question respectfully, I really do like explaining things to curious (although I caution you I'm almost alone in this; please don't make a habit of unsolicited questions to trans people! But for better or worse, I love to talk about myself, so let's use it to spread some understanding and peace for the holidays!)
    - nollidge 13y ago
      I think lots of trans women who can't afford or otherwise don't get SRS would pretty strongly object to being referred to as "shemales".
      - undoware 13y ago
        Yes, see, this is why writing benefits from having an editor. Facepalm. First draft: most johns are after a so-called 'shemale' Second draft (removing redundant quotes, following writing advice of Bill Zinsser) most johns are after a so-called shemale Third draft (shorten that sentence! Tighten it up!) most johns are after a shemale ....Fourth draft (after walking away and coming back to my writing, suddenly hearing it): most sex-industry customers are after an MtF no-op transsexual -- a 'shemale', in the derogatory parlance of the industry.

notastartup 13y ago

That is quite tragic that the law had to force you to make difficult decision, especially considering the fact that trans folks are very much marginalized in society because of the ignorance that still floats around unfortunately about gender.

rmc 13y ago

Thanks for getting involved in the HN community. It can be a little cishet male sometimes. Don't let the bastards grind you down.

pmelendez 13y ago

Immigrant in Canada here. While it sucks what it happened to your roommate I have to say that the immigration process is one of the clearest legislations between the options I had. It is slow but it gives you options. Kudos for your job. I worked with a trans woman (a fellow developer too) before and she was one of the sweetest people at the office. She even found a great guy as a boyfriend. Considering all, I think Canada is a friendly environment for transexuals, you have to see how they are treated in Latinamerica.

Sssnake 13y ago

>Because just being her roommate, under the previous legislation, would have classified as 'living off the avails' No it wouldn't. You have to actually be doing something for her. Children, spouses, roommates, etc are all safe. You were still at risk though, because your apartment would qualify as a bowdy house according to the law.