5 ms·

Recent stolen credit card number story: Last week I got an email saying I made a $1,000 payment on my credit card. Except, I didn't. It wasn't bill pay time

by seiji 13y ago

Recent stolen credit card number story: Last week I got an email saying I made a $1,000 payment on my credit card. Except, I didn't. It wasn't bill pay time of the month. I brushed it off as a well formatted spam. An hour later, it still bothered me. I logged in to check. Yup, there was a $1,000 payment recorded as of 4am my local time the same day. WTF? Oh, look, there's also fraudulent charges showing up now. How odd. It turns out: my card didn't have enough free on the credit line for the losers to buy their xbox, so they called in and requested a $1,000 payment from my bank account on file. The credit card company happily issued it, my credit limit increased by $1,000, then the guy went out and bought his xbox. While I was on the phone explaining this to the credit card company, three more fraudulent charges showed up in pre-auth. Incompetents all around (except for whoever stole my credit card number). The whole "stolen credit card number" doesn't hurt very much (since all bad charges are covered), but what really is annoying is someone getting away with purchasing things fraudulently.

kordless 13y ago
Then pile on the fact that I've tried to use my AX legitimately to buy hardware over the last month and was denied 2 separate times because it 'seemed suspicious'. Really makes you wish for a more secure payment system which can be used for such transactions.
- Jtsummers 13y ago
  I'm curious, my purchase history with my CC was generally local stores, groceries, gas, restaurants. Large purchases were rare, and then I finally bought some computer hardware (~1k purchase for the whole kit, all at once). BoA called me and confirmed it wasn't fraudulent, things went on. Then I moved and hadn't spent much in the new area (I use cash most of the time), when I finally decided to upgrade from my 13" CRT. Go into Best Buy, pay with the CC, again BoA called me and once the call was through the transaction cleared and I had my new TV. Does your CC company not call to confirm things? Were the purchases clearly out of line with your previous purchase history (by location, type or amount)?
- NoPiece 13y ago
  Someone should come up with a two factor authentication system for CC purchases. I swipe my card, then the processor pings my phone for approval. It would be great for validating tip amounts as well.
mikeash 13y ago
This makes me curious. Will your $1000 limit increase stick, or be taken back?
- seiji 13y ago
  Well, I had something like $240 free on the credit card, which wasn't enough for their xbox. They called in to issue a $1,000 payment from my bank account (on file for recurring monthly payments) to the card. The phone rep allowed it apparently. (They later said the person who called in knew my family info and passed all "security questions." I wish I could have gotten a recording of that call to see if I knew who it was.) Now, with $1,240 available on the card, they bought their xbox and other crap. As a mater of principle, I had them refund me the $1,000 I didn't authorize. They sent me a check a week later and re-adjusted all balances appropriately.
  - ams6110 13y ago
    I call BS I bet they didn't ask any security questions. I find that if you're calling to make a payment, they generally don't care who you are.
ams6110 13y ago
A good reason to NEVER link your bank account for payments on any other credit account. Also points out a security hole; normally credit card companies are a lot less concerned about verifying identity when someone wants to make a payment on an account. Here's an example of why they should.
- refurb 13y ago
  This is actually a great point, even when it comes to paying non-credit card related bills. When you authorize a business to remove cash from your bank account using ACH, it's a "withdrawal first, ask questions later" arrangement. I remember seeing a news story about a gas company who had thought a customer damaged their gas meter. They replaced it, then deducted the $1000+ cost of replacement from the customers bank account. Since the customer authorized the ACH access, they were out of luck in getting the money back right away. If they hadn't linked their bank account, they would have gotten a bill and could have figure out an arrangement before handing over any cash!
  - comrade_ogilvy 13y ago
    Exactly. When you pre-authorize money to be removed from your account, the bank will happily believe every future charge from that party. From their point of view, your emptied bank account is your problem. In fact, some banks will not even give you an effective means of removing such authorization. You may literally need a new bank account to keep your account from being emptied in the future.
    - ams6110 13y ago
      There really is no such thing as "pre-authorized" from the bank's point of view. You never tell your bank "it's OK for Utility Company Foo to debit my checking account" You give the bank's routing number and your account number to the utility or whomever. That's all they need. That information, by the way, is present in clear text on every paper check you write. The bank doesn't pre-authorize anything, nor can they block anything short of closing your account and giving you a new account number. Your protection is that presenting a fradulent check (electronic or physical) is a crime.
comrade_ogilvy 13y ago
I am ideologically opposed to ever letting money leaving my bank account, except under my close supervision with direct instructions on time and amount and to whom. That means nobody has a right to ask for money from my bank. I tell my bank whom to give money and how much. Not my credit card. Not my mortgage company. Definitely not my gym.* Nobody. Never. Therefore I never used debit cards. Wells Fargo kept sending me debit cards when my ATM card expired. I changed banks. I do not want any ambiguity about the balance in my bank. "But they promise me all kinds of protections!" That sounds nice, but there are two problems: First, you are giving up a wonderful kind of protection: the ability to walk away. If I disagree with my credit card company, I can pay what I deem correct and cancel my card. They can see me in court about the remaining balance, if they think they can win. I am whole. I still have my money in the bank account. It is approximately never going to be a problem, because the credit card companies understand the score. They have a strong incentive to play fair with an honest credit card holder. Second of all, the moment the bank/credit card company thinks something really fishy is going on, you are screwed. You know how you said you were wondering about those security questions and whether you would recognize the voice? Think carefully. If the bank suspects your nephew who stayed the weekend last month or a roommate or an ex-SO are directly involved, it all becomes your problem. The bank will not restore any funds to your account. The local police will laugh at you. And now you see the problem. The fact of your emptied bank account will not be changed, and those promises you were banking on are worthless. (Have money to hire a lawyer? That one is lose-lose.) * Private gyms love to get bill your bank account and be authorized for automatic payment. The thing most people do not realize is most banks consider this to be completely and totally your problem now. If you cancel your gym membership, and the gym makes a "mistake" and keeps billing you, the bank will not help you. In fact, some banks will tell you that your only recourse (from their POV) is to get a new bank account to protect yourself in the future. Those "mistakes"? Your problem.
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  Most gyms will also happily give you a discount (often substantial) if you pay cash (or check) in advance. Typically a year, you might be able to talk them into 6 months. I frankly prefer not having to either deal with the automatic deduction or remembering to cut a check every month.

by seiji 13y ago

kordless 13y ago

Then pile on the fact that I've tried to use my AX legitimately to buy hardware over the last month and was denied 2 separate times because it 'seemed suspicious'. Really makes you wish for a more secure payment system which can be used for such transactions.

Jtsummers 13y ago
I'm curious, my purchase history with my CC was generally local stores, groceries, gas, restaurants. Large purchases were rare, and then I finally bought some computer hardware (~1k purchase for the whole kit, all at once). BoA called me and confirmed it wasn't fraudulent, things went on. Then I moved and hadn't spent much in the new area (I use cash most of the time), when I finally decided to upgrade from my 13" CRT. Go into Best Buy, pay with the CC, again BoA called me and once the call was through the transaction cleared and I had my new TV. Does your CC company not call to confirm things? Were the purchases clearly out of line with your previous purchase history (by location, type or amount)?
NoPiece 13y ago
Someone should come up with a two factor authentication system for CC purchases. I swipe my card, then the processor pings my phone for approval. It would be great for validating tip amounts as well.

mikeash 13y ago

This makes me curious. Will your $1000 limit increase stick, or be taken back?

seiji 13y ago
Well, I had something like $240 free on the credit card, which wasn't enough for their xbox. They called in to issue a $1,000 payment from my bank account (on file for recurring monthly payments) to the card. The phone rep allowed it apparently. (They later said the person who called in knew my family info and passed all "security questions." I wish I could have gotten a recording of that call to see if I knew who it was.) Now, with $1,240 available on the card, they bought their xbox and other crap. As a mater of principle, I had them refund me the $1,000 I didn't authorize. They sent me a check a week later and re-adjusted all balances appropriately.
- ams6110 13y ago
  I call BS I bet they didn't ask any security questions. I find that if you're calling to make a payment, they generally don't care who you are.

ams6110 13y ago

A good reason to NEVER link your bank account for payments on any other credit account. Also points out a security hole; normally credit card companies are a lot less concerned about verifying identity when someone wants to make a payment on an account. Here's an example of why they should.

refurb 13y ago
This is actually a great point, even when it comes to paying non-credit card related bills. When you authorize a business to remove cash from your bank account using ACH, it's a "withdrawal first, ask questions later" arrangement. I remember seeing a news story about a gas company who had thought a customer damaged their gas meter. They replaced it, then deducted the $1000+ cost of replacement from the customers bank account. Since the customer authorized the ACH access, they were out of luck in getting the money back right away. If they hadn't linked their bank account, they would have gotten a bill and could have figure out an arrangement before handing over any cash!
- comrade_ogilvy 13y ago
  Exactly. When you pre-authorize money to be removed from your account, the bank will happily believe every future charge from that party. From their point of view, your emptied bank account is your problem. In fact, some banks will not even give you an effective means of removing such authorization. You may literally need a new bank account to keep your account from being emptied in the future.
  - ams6110 13y ago
    There really is no such thing as "pre-authorized" from the bank's point of view. You never tell your bank "it's OK for Utility Company Foo to debit my checking account" You give the bank's routing number and your account number to the utility or whomever. That's all they need. That information, by the way, is present in clear text on every paper check you write. The bank doesn't pre-authorize anything, nor can they block anything short of closing your account and giving you a new account number. Your protection is that presenting a fradulent check (electronic or physical) is a crime.

comrade_ogilvy 13y ago

I am ideologically opposed to ever letting money leaving my bank account, except under my close supervision with direct instructions on time and amount and to whom. That means nobody has a right to ask for money from my bank. I tell my bank whom to give money and how much. Not my credit card. Not my mortgage company. Definitely not my gym.* Nobody. Never. Therefore I never used debit cards. Wells Fargo kept sending me debit cards when my ATM card expired. I changed banks. I do not want any ambiguity about the balance in my bank. "But they promise me all kinds of protections!" That sounds nice, but there are two problems: First, you are giving up a wonderful kind of protection: the ability to walk away. If I disagree with my credit card company, I can pay what I deem correct and cancel my card. They can see me in court about the remaining balance, if they think they can win. I am whole. I still have my money in the bank account. It is approximately never going to be a problem, because the credit card companies understand the score. They have a strong incentive to play fair with an honest credit card holder. Second of all, the moment the bank/credit card company thinks something really fishy is going on, you are screwed. You know how you said you were wondering about those security questions and whether you would recognize the voice? Think carefully. If the bank suspects your nephew who stayed the weekend last month or a roommate or an ex-SO are directly involved, it all becomes your problem. The bank will not restore any funds to your account. The local police will laugh at you. And now you see the problem. The fact of your emptied bank account will not be changed, and those promises you were banking on are worthless. (Have money to hire a lawyer? That one is lose-lose.) * Private gyms love to get bill your bank account and be authorized for automatic payment. The thing most people do not realize is most banks consider this to be completely and totally your problem now. If you cancel your gym membership, and the gym makes a "mistake" and keeps billing you, the bank will not help you. In fact, some banks will tell you that your only recourse (from their POV) is to get a new bank account to protect yourself in the future. Those "mistakes"? Your problem.

dredmorbius 13y ago
Most gyms will also happily give you a discount (often substantial) if you pay cash (or check) in advance. Typically a year, you might be able to talk them into 6 months. I frankly prefer not having to either deal with the automatic deduction or remembering to cut a check every month.