4 ms·

In Germany they went one step further. Prostitutes are registered workers, they pay taxes and must pass monthly health checks. They also get unemployment suppor

by altero 13y ago

In Germany they went one step further. Prostitutes are registered workers, they pay taxes and must pass monthly health checks. They also get unemployment support and state pension after retirement. On other side many people lost unemployment support, because they refused to work in brothel as cleaners or maintenance personnel.

chimeracoder 13y ago
> Prostitutes are registered workers, they pay taxes and must pass monthly health checks. I fully support this. STIs are one of the biggest public costs of prostitution. (Yes, this is a public cost. Every time a new person is infected with (e.g.) HIV, from an epidemiological perspective, that increases the chances of some copy of the virus in some person mutating into a virulent - even airborne - version. This is why you should care about HIV infection rates, even if you practice safe sex and don't use IV drugs, etc.[0]) > On other side many people lost unemployment support, because they refused to work in brothel as cleaners or maintenance personnel. How is that any different from refusing to work in a hotel or a hospital as a janitor (or even as a nurse[1])? They may not like the line of work, but that's no different from disliking taking a job at Halliburton. While I sympathize with the goal of choosing a job ethically, in the US (not sure about Germany), unemployment benefits and requirements aren't designed with that in mind. [0] Even "curable" STIs are a public health problem We are already on the verge of creating - if we haven't already created - strains of gonorrhea that are resistant to all antibiotic treatments. [1] You wouldn't believe some of the stuff nurses in hospitals have to put up with on a daily basis.
- altero 13y ago
  Some of my relatives are nurses so I know well. There is big difference, just try to say: "I work in brothel!". Plus once employed one must follow work rules such as uniform... Not sure what is situation in US. But in contimental Europe one pays a lot of money on social tax (about 10% of salary). And government will jump through hoops to pay as little as possible.
  - tomp 13y ago
    Personally, that is still way better than saying "I work for the military" (if the country is attacking or occupying another, much more powerless, country).
- foobarqux 13y ago
  What do you do about sex workers that become infected? How much more desperate can they get?
  - ori_b 13y ago
    Treat them. Possibly put them on disability, since they have a health condition that put them out of work. I'm not sure how else you would handle it.
    - foobarqux 13y ago
      I don't think it's as easy as it seems. Besides being a tough sell politically it's hard to say that an infected person can no longer work anywhere. It's also not clear how to avoid having the system gamed: How do you prove you are actually a sex worker? How do you prove you were a sex worker when you got infected? Can society even afford to pay to put all of those people on disability for life (and pay for their healthcare)?
  - rbobby 13y ago
    What do you do with food workers that are infected (eg. tb)?
- civilian 13y ago
  Almost lost my coffee: > Every time a new person is infected with (e.g.) HIV, from an epidemiological perspective, that increases the chances of some copy of the virus in some person mutating into a virulent - even airborne - version More virulent, sure I'll grant that. But airborne?! HIV is in the Lentivirus family of Retroviridae. They're slow to reproduce, and airborne viruses need to be expelling many viral particles into the air to transmit. Additionally-- from where would HIV aerosolize? The only airborne retrovirus that I came across is Jaagsiekte, and it's benefited by that because it specifically targets the lungs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaagsiekte_sheep_retrovirus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaagsiekte_sheep_retrovirus HIV already has lower transmission rates in genital->throat scenarios. It has too many evolutionary hurdles to become an airborne virus. If HIV does oneday become airborne it's morphology would look so different that we'd classify it as something else. Rhinoviruses (the virus that causes the common cold) are easily aerosolized because they're tiny and are in a protein capsid. Sorry, that was maybe an overkill explanation, and the core of your statement ("more virulent") is correct. It just triggered some nerding out :D
  - ChuckMcM 13y ago
    " Additionally-- from where would HIV aerosolize?" Clearly you haven't visited Bankok :-)
    - rch 13y ago
      Pingpong-borne?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
_stephan 13y ago
AFAIK, most sex workers in Germany are self-employed, so they neither get unemployment benefits nor a national pension (since they also don't contribute to these insurance systems). Do you have any source for your statement on many people loosing unemployment benefits for refusing to work in brothels ? That sounds quite fishy.
- altero 13y ago
  Even some self-employed people have to pay social insurance. Plus one can opt-in voluntary, it makes sense if one retires after a few years into normal job. I have no credible source I could post here. However the work is for _SUPPORT_ personnel, not actual prostitutes.
ctdonath 13y ago
Many people also lost unemployment support because they refused to work as primary service providers therein.
- _stephan 13y ago
  Are you trolling?
  - brohee 13y ago
    There was a scare in 2005, I guess it got reasonably adressed since http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/1482371/If-you-dont-take-a-job-as-a-prostitute-we-can-stop-your-benefits.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/148...
bitbckt 13y ago
Nevada has legally required weekly health checks since 1937.
nawitus 13y ago
>On other side many people lost unemployment support, because they refused to work in brothel as cleaners or maintenance personnel. It's my understanding that what you've said is a myth. In any case, all reasonable social security policies have a "ethical objection clause", e.g. people can't be forced to work in occupations that they ethically object to - and this should mean that social security should be impossible to lose for refusal of employment.
- JoeAltmaier 13y ago
  Not all janitors are policy wonks. "Impossible" is a strong word. Perhaps "they are unjustifiably losing their benefits" would fit the facts better.

by altero 13y ago

chimeracoder 13y ago

> Prostitutes are registered workers, they pay taxes and must pass monthly health checks. I fully support this. STIs are one of the biggest public costs of prostitution. (Yes, this is a public cost. Every time a new person is infected with (e.g.) HIV, from an epidemiological perspective, that increases the chances of some copy of the virus in some person mutating into a virulent - even airborne - version. This is why you should care about HIV infection rates, even if you practice safe sex and don't use IV drugs, etc.[0]) > On other side many people lost unemployment support, because they refused to work in brothel as cleaners or maintenance personnel. How is that any different from refusing to work in a hotel or a hospital as a janitor (or even as a nurse[1])? They may not like the line of work, but that's no different from disliking taking a job at Halliburton. While I sympathize with the goal of choosing a job ethically, in the US (not sure about Germany), unemployment benefits and requirements aren't designed with that in mind. [0] Even "curable" STIs are a public health problem We are already on the verge of creating - if we haven't already created - strains of gonorrhea that are resistant to all antibiotic treatments. [1] You wouldn't believe some of the stuff nurses in hospitals have to put up with on a daily basis.

altero 13y ago
Some of my relatives are nurses so I know well. There is big difference, just try to say: "I work in brothel!". Plus once employed one must follow work rules such as uniform... Not sure what is situation in US. But in contimental Europe one pays a lot of money on social tax (about 10% of salary). And government will jump through hoops to pay as little as possible.
- tomp 13y ago
  Personally, that is still way better than saying "I work for the military" (if the country is attacking or occupying another, much more powerless, country).
foobarqux 13y ago
What do you do about sex workers that become infected? How much more desperate can they get?
- ori_b 13y ago
  Treat them. Possibly put them on disability, since they have a health condition that put them out of work. I'm not sure how else you would handle it.
  - foobarqux 13y ago
    I don't think it's as easy as it seems. Besides being a tough sell politically it's hard to say that an infected person can no longer work anywhere. It's also not clear how to avoid having the system gamed: How do you prove you are actually a sex worker? How do you prove you were a sex worker when you got infected? Can society even afford to pay to put all of those people on disability for life (and pay for their healthcare)?
- rbobby 13y ago
  What do you do with food workers that are infected (eg. tb)?
civilian 13y ago
Almost lost my coffee: > Every time a new person is infected with (e.g.) HIV, from an epidemiological perspective, that increases the chances of some copy of the virus in some person mutating into a virulent - even airborne - version More virulent, sure I'll grant that. But airborne?! HIV is in the Lentivirus family of Retroviridae. They're slow to reproduce, and airborne viruses need to be expelling many viral particles into the air to transmit. Additionally-- from where would HIV aerosolize? The only airborne retrovirus that I came across is Jaagsiekte, and it's benefited by that because it specifically targets the lungs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaagsiekte_sheep_retrovirus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaagsiekte_sheep_retrovirus HIV already has lower transmission rates in genital->throat scenarios. It has too many evolutionary hurdles to become an airborne virus. If HIV does oneday become airborne it's morphology would look so different that we'd classify it as something else. Rhinoviruses (the virus that causes the common cold) are easily aerosolized because they're tiny and are in a protein capsid. Sorry, that was maybe an overkill explanation, and the core of your statement ("more virulent") is correct. It just triggered some nerding out :D
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  " Additionally-- from where would HIV aerosolize?" Clearly you haven't visited Bankok :-)
  - rch 13y ago
    Pingpong-borne?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

_stephan 13y ago

AFAIK, most sex workers in Germany are self-employed, so they neither get unemployment benefits nor a national pension (since they also don't contribute to these insurance systems). Do you have any source for your statement on many people loosing unemployment benefits for refusing to work in brothels ? That sounds quite fishy.

altero 13y ago
Even some self-employed people have to pay social insurance. Plus one can opt-in voluntary, it makes sense if one retires after a few years into normal job. I have no credible source I could post here. However the work is for _SUPPORT_ personnel, not actual prostitutes.

ctdonath 13y ago

Many people also lost unemployment support because they refused to work as primary service providers therein.

_stephan 13y ago
Are you trolling?
- brohee 13y ago
  There was a scare in 2005, I guess it got reasonably adressed since http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/1482371/If-you-dont-take-a-job-as-a-prostitute-we-can-stop-your-benefits.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/148...

bitbckt 13y ago

Nevada has legally required weekly health checks since 1937.

nawitus 13y ago

>On other side many people lost unemployment support, because they refused to work in brothel as cleaners or maintenance personnel. It's my understanding that what you've said is a myth. In any case, all reasonable social security policies have a "ethical objection clause", e.g. people can't be forced to work in occupations that they ethically object to - and this should mean that social security should be impossible to lose for refusal of employment.

JoeAltmaier 13y ago
Not all janitors are policy wonks. "Impossible" is a strong word. Perhaps "they are unjustifiably losing their benefits" would fit the facts better.