3 ms·

What did all of that have to do with the NSA? How would US espionage force the EU from prosecuting or legislating against these companies?

coldtea 13y ago
>How would US espionage force the EU from prosecuting or legislating against these companies? Well, how about evesdropping on EU meetings where such actions is discussed, and taking the appropriate actions / applying pressure to favor european officials that are against them or remove from office officials that are in favor?
- DannyBee 13y ago
  What are "the appropriate actions"? What pressure do you apply? You usually have nothing they want. As a result, pressure you can apply is the same with or without knowing the content of the meetings (IE essentially "take your ball and go home"). Also, you know the content of the meetings because they tell you their positions. In very formal letters. That they will be held to in court. It's not like any of this is secret. How do you "favor officials that are against them"? They are appointed. Why would they care? They usually can't be voted against individually. Can you point out any that were removed from office? I'm really trying to understand what such a thing would buy you.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    >What are "the appropriate actions"? What pressure do you apply? Blackmail them. Bribe them. Make them a counter offer under the table that gives them some benefits. Expose something they'd done (that you know because of spying on them) to the press. Play into their parties politics to get them ousted. Sponsor your own lackeys to outvote them. >How do you "favor officials that are against them"? They are appointed. Lackeys are appointed all the time too (which can also be their bosses). The number of people paid by agencies like CIA to take specific action against their countries' interest is staggering. >Can you point out any that were removed from office? Here's a recentish example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_v._Strauss-Kahn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_v._Strauss-Kahn It's incredible how easy you can setup this kind of situations to "happen" to people you want to take out of the game. Sometimes you don't even have to set them up, you just know their tendencies (from watching them) and just decide when it's best time to act on them or ignore them. Of course, those actions being covert, and the quality of police work being what it is, don't expect those things to be unmasked in time and be able to be proved 100%. Usually we learn about those manipulation after decades, when somebody opens his mouth, or some files are declassified. But if you study the post-war history of places like Latin America, Italy, Greece, etc, you can find tons of such instances that have been verified (by declassified agency files, court documents, reporting etc). Here's some convenient one-tome insight on such affairs (the critisicm to which has been pedantic BS): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_...
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
alan_cx 13y ago
By allowing these companies to be one step ahead of any EU action.
- bananacurve 13y ago
  Of course their is no way that Europe's tech failings are because of their foolish regulatory nonsense, it has to be that America's cheating. That is a great way to ensure irrelevance.
  - vidarh 13y ago
    That's a rather funny comment to make in response to speculation (that I do think sound a bit far fetched) that the NSA has used its influence to reduce the amount of EU anti-trust action, supported by pointing out how easy near-monopolist US companies have had it in Europe.
    - bananacurve 13y ago
      So you think America made the EU have foolish regulation?
      - jbooth 13y ago
        Not everything is about your libertarian hobby horse. California and NYC are 2 of the "least economically free" areas of the US. Shouldn't they be getting outcompeted by Idaho or something? Or maybe the world exists on more than one axis.
        bananacurve 13y ago
        NY and CA may be the least free but they are a dream compared to europe.
        Shivetya 13y ago
        Well there, you've hit the nail on the head. The companies come about where people, innovators, and entrepreneurs, want to live and do business. Taking your comment to the next step implies that European countries do not hold all these qualities or not in sufficient amount. Yet I do read about technology, financial, and energy concerns, in Europe. Hell many energy concerns there own their US counterparts. It all comes down to perception, the other guy is not the right

coldtea 13y ago

>How would US espionage force the EU from prosecuting or legislating against these companies? Well, how about evesdropping on EU meetings where such actions is discussed, and taking the appropriate actions / applying pressure to favor european officials that are against them or remove from office officials that are in favor?

DannyBee 13y ago
What are "the appropriate actions"? What pressure do you apply? You usually have nothing they want. As a result, pressure you can apply is the same with or without knowing the content of the meetings (IE essentially "take your ball and go home"). Also, you know the content of the meetings because they tell you their positions. In very formal letters. That they will be held to in court. It's not like any of this is secret. How do you "favor officials that are against them"? They are appointed. Why would they care? They usually can't be voted against individually. Can you point out any that were removed from office? I'm really trying to understand what such a thing would buy you.
- coldtea 13y ago
  >What are "the appropriate actions"? What pressure do you apply? Blackmail them. Bribe them. Make them a counter offer under the table that gives them some benefits. Expose something they'd done (that you know because of spying on them) to the press. Play into their parties politics to get them ousted. Sponsor your own lackeys to outvote them. >How do you "favor officials that are against them"? They are appointed. Lackeys are appointed all the time too (which can also be their bosses). The number of people paid by agencies like CIA to take specific action against their countries' interest is staggering. >Can you point out any that were removed from office? Here's a recentish example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_v._Strauss-Kahn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_v._Strauss-Kahn It's incredible how easy you can setup this kind of situations to "happen" to people you want to take out of the game. Sometimes you don't even have to set them up, you just know their tendencies (from watching them) and just decide when it's best time to act on them or ignore them. Of course, those actions being covert, and the quality of police work being what it is, don't expect those things to be unmasked in time and be able to be proved 100%. Usually we learn about those manipulation after decades, when somebody opens his mouth, or some files are declassified. But if you study the post-war history of places like Latin America, Italy, Greece, etc, you can find tons of such instances that have been verified (by declassified agency files, court documents, reporting etc). Here's some convenient one-tome insight on such affairs (the critisicm to which has been pedantic BS): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_...

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

alan_cx 13y ago

By allowing these companies to be one step ahead of any EU action.

bananacurve 13y ago
Of course their is no way that Europe's tech failings are because of their foolish regulatory nonsense, it has to be that America's cheating. That is a great way to ensure irrelevance.
- vidarh 13y ago
  That's a rather funny comment to make in response to speculation (that I do think sound a bit far fetched) that the NSA has used its influence to reduce the amount of EU anti-trust action, supported by pointing out how easy near-monopolist US companies have had it in Europe.
  - bananacurve 13y ago
    So you think America made the EU have foolish regulation?
    - jbooth 13y ago
      Not everything is about your libertarian hobby horse. California and NYC are 2 of the "least economically free" areas of the US. Shouldn't they be getting outcompeted by Idaho or something? Or maybe the world exists on more than one axis.
      - bananacurve 13y ago
        NY and CA may be the least free but they are a dream compared to europe.
      - Shivetya 13y ago
        Well there, you've hit the nail on the head. The companies come about where people, innovators, and entrepreneurs, want to live and do business. Taking your comment to the next step implies that European countries do not hold all these qualities or not in sufficient amount. Yet I do read about technology, financial, and energy concerns, in Europe. Hell many energy concerns there own their US counterparts. It all comes down to perception, the other guy is not the right