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Does he have any hard examples of this? I've never seen this on any startup site I've looked at. Typically they're labeled "jobs" or "work with/for us."

the_watcher 13y ago
Seems like a startup should have much more important things to worry about than what to label their jobs page.
- darrellsilver 13y ago
  For sure there are other things to worry about... but it's not a label, it's a first impression. We didn't originally spend a lot of time thinking about our jobs pages at http://www.thinkful.com/ http://www.thinkful.com/ until candidates started asking about them. Then we realized the number of people who were turned off from talking to us because we explained the company so poorly. There's still a lot of work to do, but that's always the case!
  - the_watcher 13y ago
    I don't think they should ignore the jobs page, actually the opposite. It's hugely important. I don't think they should worry about calling it jobs vs. careers is all (basing this on my experience just viewing them as synonyms).
- benmgreene 13y ago
  I don't think it's the name so much as the attitude that matters. I've definitely seen startup founders that expected a longer term commitment from employees than they did from themselves. The founders wanted employees to believe 100% that they would be at the company for years to come, even though the founders fully expected to guide the company from inception to acquisition as quickly as possible and then split. I think the reality is that startup industry people, regardless of whether they're in a founding or hired role, are in it to create businesses and learn how to do so. Once those opportunities evaporate, they're not going to see value in sticking around to turn the gears. Startups that try to hire for long-haulers are bringing in the asylum-seekers, not the risk-takers. Full disclosure: I worked with the author for six months.
  - the_watcher 13y ago
    I'm just talking about worrying about the name. They should absolutely think long and hard about the actual page. I've just always treated jobs and careers as synonyms in that context.
taybin 13y ago
I've noticed it, laughed to myself, and moved on. I didn't think it was that big a deal. Just wishful thinking on the company's part. No big deal.
rmcfeeley 13y ago
Hi Joel -- quick search in response to your comment: http://www.knewton.com/careers/ http://www.knewton.com/careers/ http://www.shopify.com/careers http://www.shopify.com/careers http://www.quirky.com/about/careers http://www.quirky.com/about/careers
davidw 13y ago
https://coinbase.com/careers https://coinbase.com/careers - which seems particularly "uncareerlike" given the volatility of what they deal with.
bushido 13y ago
I haven't quite formed an opinion on the authors point yet, but to answer your question I wen't over to angel.co[0] and checked the websites for the first three featured jobs and out of those two call it a career. [0] https://angel.co/ https://angel.co/ [1] http://www.nimble.com/company/careers/ http://www.nimble.com/company/careers/ [2] https://poptip.com/careers/ https://poptip.com/careers/
wil421 13y ago
I dont have a posting but there was one company that always had the title "Ignite your career." I found out later the average turnaround was 6 months. Glad I turned down that job. Out of 5 classmates that chose them, only one was working 9 months later.
- rmcfeeley 13y ago
  Ha - well said. Employee churnover in startupland is hilarious. This is not always obvious to those diving into this world for the first time.

the_watcher 13y ago

Seems like a startup should have much more important things to worry about than what to label their jobs page.

darrellsilver 13y ago
For sure there are other things to worry about... but it's not a label, it's a first impression. We didn't originally spend a lot of time thinking about our jobs pages at http://www.thinkful.com/ http://www.thinkful.com/ until candidates started asking about them. Then we realized the number of people who were turned off from talking to us because we explained the company so poorly. There's still a lot of work to do, but that's always the case!
- the_watcher 13y ago
  I don't think they should ignore the jobs page, actually the opposite. It's hugely important. I don't think they should worry about calling it jobs vs. careers is all (basing this on my experience just viewing them as synonyms).
benmgreene 13y ago
I don't think it's the name so much as the attitude that matters. I've definitely seen startup founders that expected a longer term commitment from employees than they did from themselves. The founders wanted employees to believe 100% that they would be at the company for years to come, even though the founders fully expected to guide the company from inception to acquisition as quickly as possible and then split. I think the reality is that startup industry people, regardless of whether they're in a founding or hired role, are in it to create businesses and learn how to do so. Once those opportunities evaporate, they're not going to see value in sticking around to turn the gears. Startups that try to hire for long-haulers are bringing in the asylum-seekers, not the risk-takers. Full disclosure: I worked with the author for six months.
- the_watcher 13y ago
  I'm just talking about worrying about the name. They should absolutely think long and hard about the actual page. I've just always treated jobs and careers as synonyms in that context.

taybin 13y ago

I've noticed it, laughed to myself, and moved on. I didn't think it was that big a deal. Just wishful thinking on the company's part. No big deal.

rmcfeeley 13y ago

Hi Joel -- quick search in response to your comment: http://www.knewton.com/careers/ http://www.knewton.com/careers/ http://www.shopify.com/careers http://www.shopify.com/careers http://www.quirky.com/about/careers http://www.quirky.com/about/careers

davidw 13y ago

https://coinbase.com/careers https://coinbase.com/careers - which seems particularly "uncareerlike" given the volatility of what they deal with.

bushido 13y ago

I haven't quite formed an opinion on the authors point yet, but to answer your question I wen't over to angel.co[0] and checked the websites for the first three featured jobs and out of those two call it a career. [0] https://angel.co/ https://angel.co/ [1] http://www.nimble.com/company/careers/ http://www.nimble.com/company/careers/ [2] https://poptip.com/careers/ https://poptip.com/careers/

wil421 13y ago

I dont have a posting but there was one company that always had the title "Ignite your career." I found out later the average turnaround was 6 months. Glad I turned down that job. Out of 5 classmates that chose them, only one was working 9 months later.

rmcfeeley 13y ago
Ha - well said. Employee churnover in startupland is hilarious. This is not always obvious to those diving into this world for the first time.