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I would like to meet this person. No, no no no no. No you would not. Not unless you mean it like "I'd like to meet a serial killer, just for the experience."

I would like to meet this person. No, no no no no. No you would not. Not unless you mean it like "I'd like to meet a serial killer, just for the experience." Maybe it'd be interesting to get their point of view, sure, but you are far better off without them in your life. And certainly without having any form of relationship with them. One of the main reasons this guy wrote this letter was probably self-aggrandization. The very fact that you find him more interesting is exactly what he wanted. That's not inherently a bad thing. What's inherently a bad thing is that when human remorse and guilt have been genetically disabled, those people will do things to you which are fucked up. I have experienced the blunt, raw force of their emotional carpet bombing firsthand from a certain family member. Everyone needs to remember that these people are hardwired to be deliberately manipulative, because they feel good only when you're giving them attention. Then they feel good only when you're doing things they've conned you into believing you want to do; sometimes things you'll feel shitty about for the rest of your life, once you snap out of it and realize you've been a puppet.

ama729 13y ago
> What's inherently a bad thing is that when human remorse and guilt has been genetically disabled, those people will do things to you which are fucked up. Honestly, did you read the entire letter? Because he clearly address that point: Its true that I do not 'feel' guilt or remorse, except to the extent that it affects me directly, but I do feel other emotions, which do not have adequate words of description, but nevertheless cause me to derive satisfacton in developing interpersonal relationships, contributing to society, and being gentle as well as assertive.
- sillysaurus2 13y ago
  Isn't it possible the person who is genetically predisposed to being manipulative is manipulating your feelings here? Yes, what he wrote is interesting, and I read all of it. No, I don't believe he feels "satisfaction in contributing to society." I believe he feels satisfaction in contributing to himself and his own self-image, even unblinkingly at the expense of others. I'm of course biased in this, having been the target of one of these manipulators, so maybe it's better to ignore me. But man, be grateful you weren't the target, because it had pretty dramatic effects on my life, and took a long time to get over.
  - jerf 13y ago
    "Isn't it possible the person who is genetically predisposed to being manipulative is manipulating your feelings here?" Absolutely yes, but I also can't help but notice the argument as you are making it is a bit too powerful; no matter what he says or does, there's no way for him to overcome the argument. We're only a short step away from simply labeling someone a psychopath, then declaring you can't trust anything they say. We can't really know his internal mental and emotional state here, and that's not unique to psychopaths, that's true of everybody. You may very well still be correct. For all I know, the whole story is made up from whole cloth. But it's at least possibly true, too.
    - ams6110 13y ago
      "You knew I was a snake when you picked me up"
  - wpietri 13y ago
    I had that exact question. When the tiger tells you that he's overcome his taste for human flesh he could be quite sincere, or he could be lying. Even if sincere, he could be wrong. I wish the fellow the best of luck, and I hope one day we can build a society where we can safely accommodate all the people like him. When I go to the zoo, I feel compassion for the tigers in their cages. But if they're loose, padding around the halls, I'd hope that I'd have the sense not to try to snuggle up to them, no matter how tame they seemed.
  - tekalon 13y ago
    You say this like manipulation is inherently bad. If he's manipulated me into feeling sympathy or got attention from HN, good for him. I won't be putting any more energy into his work than writing this response and finish reading comments. I've known many that would score high as being a psychopath, but kept their manipulations to mainly be beneficial to both sides (I fix you/your problem so I don't have to deal with it anymore). I've also had bad experiences, but that has made me learn to see how the manipulations are affecting me in the long run, rather than thinking manipulations are bad as a whole.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
beaker52 13y ago
Love is the kindest and most valuable thing we can spread in this world and your reply offered none to this individual. He is no less deserving than any other. We all have the same life sentence. We're all trying to do our thing, he, you and I included. More love, less hate. Please.
- sillysaurus2 13y ago
  This is actually the central reason I was so torn up over my experience, and one of the reasons the whole thing sometimes still haunts me. Because the only possible way out of my situation was to completely cut ties, and shut off the love. I'm a loving person and it absolutely tore me up for a long time. Eventually I came to terms with the fact that if I wanted to lead a life without torment, it was a necessary evil. These people will stop at nothing until you're twisted around their pinkie finger, and they will prey on your forgiving nature. It's why I'm trying to call attention to how dangerous they are. But words aren't adequate to convey the breadth and magnitude of their ability to carve out chunks of your life for their own purposes. They'll take all your love and steamroll you in return.
  - Fuxy 13y ago
    You're personalty can't handle a psychopath mine can. I'm not loving nor forgiving and although I do poses empathy and remorse can contentiously suppers it. Everything has to be earned with me. This applies to everybody including my own parents. I grew up around manipulative people i know how to deal with them. I actually instinctively distance myself from them. I'm not saying I would be his friend but i find his point of view valuable as long as he doesn't try it with me. I would notice if he did.
    - sillysaurus2 13y ago
      Mm, well, best of luck. It was more a warning for people without your unique skillset, though.
    - LaGrange 13y ago
      "You're personalty can't handle a psychopath mine can.” You actually come off like someone who claims that they had grown up around airplane pilots and therefore can handle gravity. It’s actually unlikely you can. "I would notice if he did.” I’m just going to call that posturing.
Taek 13y ago
This is over cautious, and you use your own experiences as too much of an example of "this is what will always happen." If you think of people like psychopaths and serial killers as fire, and your experience of getting burned (whether it was in your control or not), you might acknowledge that circumstances could be set up where a meeting with a psychopath could happen in a safe and protected way. People who are very different from you (even dangerous) probably share traits with you that are much more exaggerated in themselves. Their experiences have analogs to yours, and even though they are fundamentally different from you they can still teach you a lot about yourself. I would relish the opportunity to meet a serial killer. Would I meet him in a dark ally with no law enforcement or witnesses? Of course not, if I had any control I would avoid that scenario. If I had the opportunity to let a psychopath become an integral part of my family, I would reject that as well (not everybody has the luxury, I understand). But if we are meeting for coffee in a reasonably populated restaurant, I think the conversation could be very beneficial to myself. Dangerous does not guarantee disastrous.

ama729 13y ago

> What's inherently a bad thing is that when human remorse and guilt has been genetically disabled, those people will do things to you which are fucked up. Honestly, did you read the entire letter? Because he clearly address that point: Its true that I do not 'feel' guilt or remorse, except to the extent that it affects me directly, but I do feel other emotions, which do not have adequate words of description, but nevertheless cause me to derive satisfacton in developing interpersonal relationships, contributing to society, and being gentle as well as assertive.

sillysaurus2 13y ago
Isn't it possible the person who is genetically predisposed to being manipulative is manipulating your feelings here? Yes, what he wrote is interesting, and I read all of it. No, I don't believe he feels "satisfaction in contributing to society." I believe he feels satisfaction in contributing to himself and his own self-image, even unblinkingly at the expense of others. I'm of course biased in this, having been the target of one of these manipulators, so maybe it's better to ignore me. But man, be grateful you weren't the target, because it had pretty dramatic effects on my life, and took a long time to get over.
- jerf 13y ago
  "Isn't it possible the person who is genetically predisposed to being manipulative is manipulating your feelings here?" Absolutely yes, but I also can't help but notice the argument as you are making it is a bit too powerful; no matter what he says or does, there's no way for him to overcome the argument. We're only a short step away from simply labeling someone a psychopath, then declaring you can't trust anything they say. We can't really know his internal mental and emotional state here, and that's not unique to psychopaths, that's true of everybody. You may very well still be correct. For all I know, the whole story is made up from whole cloth. But it's at least possibly true, too.
  - ams6110 13y ago
    "You knew I was a snake when you picked me up"
- wpietri 13y ago
  I had that exact question. When the tiger tells you that he's overcome his taste for human flesh he could be quite sincere, or he could be lying. Even if sincere, he could be wrong. I wish the fellow the best of luck, and I hope one day we can build a society where we can safely accommodate all the people like him. When I go to the zoo, I feel compassion for the tigers in their cages. But if they're loose, padding around the halls, I'd hope that I'd have the sense not to try to snuggle up to them, no matter how tame they seemed.
- tekalon 13y ago
  You say this like manipulation is inherently bad. If he's manipulated me into feeling sympathy or got attention from HN, good for him. I won't be putting any more energy into his work than writing this response and finish reading comments. I've known many that would score high as being a psychopath, but kept their manipulations to mainly be beneficial to both sides (I fix you/your problem so I don't have to deal with it anymore). I've also had bad experiences, but that has made me learn to see how the manipulations are affecting me in the long run, rather than thinking manipulations are bad as a whole.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

beaker52 13y ago

Love is the kindest and most valuable thing we can spread in this world and your reply offered none to this individual. He is no less deserving than any other. We all have the same life sentence. We're all trying to do our thing, he, you and I included. More love, less hate. Please.

sillysaurus2 13y ago
This is actually the central reason I was so torn up over my experience, and one of the reasons the whole thing sometimes still haunts me. Because the only possible way out of my situation was to completely cut ties, and shut off the love. I'm a loving person and it absolutely tore me up for a long time. Eventually I came to terms with the fact that if I wanted to lead a life without torment, it was a necessary evil. These people will stop at nothing until you're twisted around their pinkie finger, and they will prey on your forgiving nature. It's why I'm trying to call attention to how dangerous they are. But words aren't adequate to convey the breadth and magnitude of their ability to carve out chunks of your life for their own purposes. They'll take all your love and steamroll you in return.
- Fuxy 13y ago
  You're personalty can't handle a psychopath mine can. I'm not loving nor forgiving and although I do poses empathy and remorse can contentiously suppers it. Everything has to be earned with me. This applies to everybody including my own parents. I grew up around manipulative people i know how to deal with them. I actually instinctively distance myself from them. I'm not saying I would be his friend but i find his point of view valuable as long as he doesn't try it with me. I would notice if he did.
  - sillysaurus2 13y ago
    Mm, well, best of luck. It was more a warning for people without your unique skillset, though.
  - LaGrange 13y ago
    "You're personalty can't handle a psychopath mine can.” You actually come off like someone who claims that they had grown up around airplane pilots and therefore can handle gravity. It’s actually unlikely you can. "I would notice if he did.” I’m just going to call that posturing.

Taek 13y ago

This is over cautious, and you use your own experiences as too much of an example of "this is what will always happen." If you think of people like psychopaths and serial killers as fire, and your experience of getting burned (whether it was in your control or not), you might acknowledge that circumstances could be set up where a meeting with a psychopath could happen in a safe and protected way. People who are very different from you (even dangerous) probably share traits with you that are much more exaggerated in themselves. Their experiences have analogs to yours, and even though they are fundamentally different from you they can still teach you a lot about yourself. I would relish the opportunity to meet a serial killer. Would I meet him in a dark ally with no law enforcement or witnesses? Of course not, if I had any control I would avoid that scenario. If I had the opportunity to let a psychopath become an integral part of my family, I would reject that as well (not everybody has the luxury, I understand). But if we are meeting for coffee in a reasonably populated restaurant, I think the conversation could be very beneficial to myself. Dangerous does not guarantee disastrous.