4 ms·

The only reason California is so diverse is because of immigration, and so while what you say makes sense, it would change nothing in the long run unless it was

The only reason California is so diverse is because of immigration, and so while what you say makes sense, it would change nothing in the long run unless it was accompanied by stricter immigration restrictions. Otherwise these 6 new countries would soon be just as diverse as California is now.

carsongross 13y ago
Each new country, of course, would be able to set their immigration restrictions and loosely or as tightly as they wished. And, hey, this might actually reflect the preferences of their citizens rather than the preferences of some remote elites. It's crazy talk, I know.
- smtddr 13y ago
  Yes, crazy and wrong. Let me tell you how this is going to go. A bunch of wealthy people, of limited diversity, will make their own country and exploit all the poorer ones. I would have no problem with your plan if you can assure me that the wealthier country doesn't bully, pollute, wage wars or otherwise compromise the people or natural resources the poorer countries nearby.
  - carsongross 13y ago
    Nah, sane and correct. Massive super-states: bulwarks of peace, clean living and respect for both the individual and their local cultural groups... Sure, man. Whatever. At least give it a chance in your brain: I know it doesn't fit the classic left/right divide, but would a continent of Switzerlands of varying cultures be that bad? Worse than todays USG?
    - smtddr 13y ago
      I can assure you that the rich will group themselves away from the poor. So, I repeat: If you can assure me the wealthy won't take advantage of the poor, then I'm fine. But you can't assure me that. It's going to end up like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oblongs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oblongs >>The series focuses on the antics of a family who live in a poor valley community and, as a result of pollution and radiation exposure, are all disabled or deformed. The pollution is the direct result of the lavish lifestyle of the rich community known as "The Hills", whose residents exploit and harm the valley residents with absolutely no regard for their safety or well-being. Social commentary Many reviewers and fans see the series as a commentary on social stratification. While the residents of the Hills live in wealth and economically dominate those in the Valley, there is no rallying cry for wealth redistribution or fairer working conditions.
  - bilbo0s 13y ago
    If it makes you feel any better... NONE of these nations would be bullies... because they would be unable to defend themselves. They would rely on some bigger, stronger ally to guarantee that other nations would not trample their sovereignty or, most importantly, their property rights. I DO think that a bigger, stronger nation would dominate in the area that would be formerly known as California... I just don't think that stronger nation would be one of the new nations formed. It would probably be the US actually. So the rich of the new nations would not dominate the poor of the new nations... It's far more likely that the US would dominate both.
  - tolmasky 13y ago
    Wait are you describing the US and it's current relationship to others countries?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- yetanotherphd 13y ago
  I guess that makes sense. What is novel and slightly confusing about your viewpoint is that it involves the interaction between the size of a country, and the diversity of a country. Only large, diverse countries are a problem for you. But there is still the issue of elites (remote or otherwise) imposing diversity on their citizens against their wishes. If this hadn't happened in the US, California wouldn't be so diverse in the first place. You claim this is not such a problem with small countries, but exactly the same thing is happening in Europe.
- millstone 13y ago
  Preferences of citizens instead of remote elites! What springs to my mind is the events of 1953, where a mere 9 remote elites ran roughshod over the preferences of millions of citizens. Also known as Brown v. Board of Education. Federalism and the incorporation doctrine have been a powerful force for freedom and justice in the USA. Please let's not abandon it.
pessimizer 13y ago
>The only reason California is so diverse is because of immigration I hope you're including immigration from the Midwest, the South, the tons of immigration from the East Coast etc. in the immigration you want to restrict. California used to be part of Mexico, so nothing from that border could be making California any more diverse.
- mc32 13y ago
  For perspective, California was part of Mexico for all of 10 years, then went thru revolts and independence (republic) then US state. It was part of Spain for many years before that. Just like Louisiana was French before it was a territory and then state.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > For perspective, California was part of Mexico for all of 10 years 1821-1846 is 25 years.
    - mc32 13y ago
      Nominally, yes. Most of the latter part Mexico had little to no dominion (revolts, independence, etc.).
GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
"The only reason California is so diverse is because of immigration" Time was, California only had indigenous peoples.
informatimago 13y ago
Obviously, only programmers would be allowed to immigrate into SiliconValleyCountry, and only actors would be allowed into HollywoodLand.

carsongross 13y ago

Each new country, of course, would be able to set their immigration restrictions and loosely or as tightly as they wished. And, hey, this might actually reflect the preferences of their citizens rather than the preferences of some remote elites. It's crazy talk, I know.

smtddr 13y ago
Yes, crazy and wrong. Let me tell you how this is going to go. A bunch of wealthy people, of limited diversity, will make their own country and exploit all the poorer ones. I would have no problem with your plan if you can assure me that the wealthier country doesn't bully, pollute, wage wars or otherwise compromise the people or natural resources the poorer countries nearby.
- carsongross 13y ago
  Nah, sane and correct. Massive super-states: bulwarks of peace, clean living and respect for both the individual and their local cultural groups... Sure, man. Whatever. At least give it a chance in your brain: I know it doesn't fit the classic left/right divide, but would a continent of Switzerlands of varying cultures be that bad? Worse than todays USG?
  - smtddr 13y ago
    I can assure you that the rich will group themselves away from the poor. So, I repeat: If you can assure me the wealthy won't take advantage of the poor, then I'm fine. But you can't assure me that. It's going to end up like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oblongs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oblongs >>The series focuses on the antics of a family who live in a poor valley community and, as a result of pollution and radiation exposure, are all disabled or deformed. The pollution is the direct result of the lavish lifestyle of the rich community known as "The Hills", whose residents exploit and harm the valley residents with absolutely no regard for their safety or well-being. Social commentary Many reviewers and fans see the series as a commentary on social stratification. While the residents of the Hills live in wealth and economically dominate those in the Valley, there is no rallying cry for wealth redistribution or fairer working conditions.
- bilbo0s 13y ago
  If it makes you feel any better... NONE of these nations would be bullies... because they would be unable to defend themselves. They would rely on some bigger, stronger ally to guarantee that other nations would not trample their sovereignty or, most importantly, their property rights. I DO think that a bigger, stronger nation would dominate in the area that would be formerly known as California... I just don't think that stronger nation would be one of the new nations formed. It would probably be the US actually. So the rich of the new nations would not dominate the poor of the new nations... It's far more likely that the US would dominate both.
- tolmasky 13y ago
  Wait are you describing the US and it's current relationship to others countries?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
yetanotherphd 13y ago
I guess that makes sense. What is novel and slightly confusing about your viewpoint is that it involves the interaction between the size of a country, and the diversity of a country. Only large, diverse countries are a problem for you. But there is still the issue of elites (remote or otherwise) imposing diversity on their citizens against their wishes. If this hadn't happened in the US, California wouldn't be so diverse in the first place. You claim this is not such a problem with small countries, but exactly the same thing is happening in Europe.
millstone 13y ago
Preferences of citizens instead of remote elites! What springs to my mind is the events of 1953, where a mere 9 remote elites ran roughshod over the preferences of millions of citizens. Also known as Brown v. Board of Education. Federalism and the incorporation doctrine have been a powerful force for freedom and justice in the USA. Please let's not abandon it.

pessimizer 13y ago

>The only reason California is so diverse is because of immigration I hope you're including immigration from the Midwest, the South, the tons of immigration from the East Coast etc. in the immigration you want to restrict. California used to be part of Mexico, so nothing from that border could be making California any more diverse.

mc32 13y ago
For perspective, California was part of Mexico for all of 10 years, then went thru revolts and independence (republic) then US state. It was part of Spain for many years before that. Just like Louisiana was French before it was a territory and then state.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > For perspective, California was part of Mexico for all of 10 years 1821-1846 is 25 years.
  - mc32 13y ago
    Nominally, yes. Most of the latter part Mexico had little to no dominion (revolts, independence, etc.).

GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago

"The only reason California is so diverse is because of immigration" Time was, California only had indigenous peoples.

informatimago 13y ago

Obviously, only programmers would be allowed to immigrate into SiliconValleyCountry, and only actors would be allowed into HollywoodLand.