4 ms·
Would you agree that there's a difference in severity between telling a man "I'm going to come to your house and rape you, you stupid faggot" and telling a woma
by pyrocat 13y ago
Would you agree that there's a difference in severity between telling a man "I'm going to come to your house and rape you, you stupid faggot" and telling a woman "I'm going to come to your house and rape you, you stupid whore"? The latter has much more weight, as at least 1 in 5 women in America will be raped in their lifetime. (edit: 1 in 6 is more accurate http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assau...) It's not an unrealistic threat, and it's much more likely to bring up trauma.
- gametheoretic 13y agoYes I would. But I would disagree that that difference is relevant to understanding the problem. In a nutshell, that was the point of my post. Understanding must come first.
- pyrocat 13y agoBullies will find a way to harass people, regardless of gender, is your point? I agree with that. The article is trying to point out that the gaming community is hostile towards women. I don't think your point is all that relevant to the discussion.
- ps4fanboy 13y agoBut it masks the true problem, that online communities tend to be hostile to everyone. Not just gaming communities and not just women.
- pyrocat 13y agoBullshit. They are not equally hostile to everyone.
- ps4fanboy 13y agoAre you saying this anecdotally or do you have data to back this up?
- pyrocat 13y agohttp://blog.pricecharting.com/2012/09/emilyami-sexism-in-video-games-study.html http://blog.pricecharting.com/2012/09/emilyami-sexism-in-vid... Not as academic as I'm sure we'd both like, but there's not a lot of funding for studies that deal with online harassment.
- transitionality 13y agoHow can there be more online harassment against women when most hardcore gamers are men? You're full of shit.
- ps4fanboy 13y agoThis is a study about sexism not harassment.
- pyrocat 13y agoIf you're not going to read the sources you specifically requested, I'm not going to bother.
- ps4fanboy 13y agoI did read your source, I think you miss understood me, I am saying that "sexual harassment" is biased towards women, if you asked a different set of questions that was focused on general harassment you would have a much less biased report, that would show that men are too harassed when playing online games. It would be like asking a group of straight men and homosexual men if they felt they were being harassed for their sexual preferences.
- pyrocat 13y agohttp://nms.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/09/12/1461444812458271 http://nms.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/09/12/146144481245... this too "Findings indicate that, on average, the female voice received three times as many negative comments as the male voice or no voice. In addition, the female voice received more queries and more messages from other gamers than the male voice or no voice."
- transitionality 13y agoYou're the only one who's full of bullshit in this thread. Well, you and the OP, assuming you're not the same person. I have a feeling you might be, though.
- gametheoretic 13y agoNo, it's not, though I will cede that the distinction is a subtle one. My point is that their specific words are not important to them. They're just saying whatever. By the letter of the definition, it is sexual harassment, but by the spirit of their actions, it is not. And if you don't understand why someone is acting the way they are, you stand little chance of persuading them to change their ways. You can stand around and quote rape statistics all you want - it will fall on deaf ears. It has.
- pyrocat 13y agoSo let's say that is true. It obviously doesn't matter to the woman who hears it. So how do we fix it?
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- transitionality 13y agoWe point out agenda-designed bullshit whenever we hear it, like I just did with you, twice.
- ps4fanboy 13y agoFirst you identify the real problem. The root problem is not that people are harassing women, the true problem is people are harassing people online. You can argue that you think it is worse when women are effected but that distinction does not get us closer to a solution and only serves to drive a wedge between people. Arguments about who is victimized more are useless.
- pyrocat 13y agoThat's a really interesting point. Thank you for the perspective.
- gametheoretic 13y agoHN won't let me reply to your more recent comment for some reason. As I see it, you have two options: a) change millions of people to your liking; b) change yourself to your liking. It is not "obviously" true that strangers' words must affect you. If it feels that way, it's because you haven't learned how not to let them. (This is the point the others miss when telling you to just ignore it. The skill is a learned one, not as simple as choosing ketchup vs. mustard, like they make it out to be.) Let's practice: If they don't care what they're saying, then why do you? Non-rhetorical.
- BlackDeath3 13y agoAre you suggesting that this hypothetical situation is much more likely to bring up traumatic emotions, or are you suggesting that more women are actually attacked as a result of online encounters? If the former, then I'm not convinced that other peoples' reactions to things that somebody says (over the Internet, no less) should be that person's responsibility. If the latter, then that's quite the claim, and one without a shred of proof from you.
- pyrocat 13y agoThe former. If you're not convinced other peoples reactions to what you say matter, then try making dead baby jokes in front of someone who's had a miscarriage. As for the latter, I would suggest instead that more women are driven away from the gaming community because of online encounters. People can say "oh just ignore it" or "grow a thicker skin", but with that reaction eventually you'll have a community of just male gamers who don't mind being told they're going to be raped while playing a game.
- transitionality 13y agoYou do not have a right to not be offended.
- BlackDeath3 13y agoAnd more than that, if I spent the time required to avoid offending people that I talked to, I wouldn't have any time left over to think about anything else. I'm not willing to do that, for more reasons than just that I value my time highly.
- transitionality 13y agoI value my right to free speech at least as highly as I value my time, possibly more.
- dragonwriter 13y ago> Would you agree that there's a difference in severity between telling a man "I'm going to come to your house and rape you, you stupid faggot" and telling a woman "I'm going to come to your house and rape you, you stupid whore"? The latter has much more weight, as at least 1 in 5 women in America will be raped in their lifetime. Granting, for the sake of argument, the basic premise that the latter statement would have greater weight if the proportion of women who would be raped in their lifetime was greater than the proportion of men for whom that is true [1], and granting the assertion about the lower bound on the prevalence of rape victimization for women [2], you would need to also provide [3] an upper bound on the prevalence of rape victimization for men that was lower than that lower bound for women for this to work. [1] Which I would not grant except for the sake of argument, without additional argument for it, because there are a number of problems I see with that premise on its face, but they are secondary to the more glaring problem of the missing comparison. [2] Which really should be supported by something. [3] And, as in [2], support.
- pyrocat 13y agoYou're really going to argue that more men are raped than women in America?
- dragonwriter 13y ago> You're really going to argue that more men are raped than women in America? No, I'm going to argue that if you choose to make an argument implicitly premised on the different rape victimization by sex, you can't support it with just an unsupported statistic for one sex.
- pyrocat 13y agohttp://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assau... > About 3% of American men — or 1 in 33 — have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.1 > In 2003, 1 in every ten rape victims were male.2
- ps4fanboy 13y agoI am not sure why you think its realistic to take the threat of rape while playing a video game seriously. Do you have any data to back up this claim that it is in fact a serious threat? I am not trying to detract from the message that it is bad but this seems silly.
- pyrocat 13y agoI'm saying it's more of a realistic threat to women than it is to men. And because of data (http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assau...), when it's a women, the likelyhood that the person hearing the threat has been raped is pretty high.
- ps4fanboy 13y agoWhere is the data that shows how many people who have been raped after playing a video game.
- transitionality 13y agoThat statistic is complete bunk. http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/02/one-in-four-lie-demolished-once-and-for.html http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/02/one-in-four-lie... Rape is a bigger threat to men. http://betweenletters.quora.com/More-Men-Are-Raped-In-the-US-Than-Women http://betweenletters.quora.com/More-Men-Are-Raped-In-the-US... You knowingly perpetrate lies under a sexist agenda. You have absolutely no shame.
- ceol 13y agoNeither of your links cite any actual sources, and the second link conflates "reported rapes" with "estimated rapes". I'm actually concerned why you aren't hellbanned yet.
- transitionality 13y agoThe former cites its source, and the latter is US Justice Department figures. You're a typical female supremacist. You try to ban what you can't shout down. You're sickening.
- transitionality 13y agoThat statistic is complete bunk. http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/02/one-in-four-lie-demolished-once-and-for.html http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/02/one-in-four-lie...
- ceol 13y agoYou seem to have a thing for posting sources that don't cite anything they claim.
- transitionality 13y agoIt cites its source. It's a link. Try clicking on it.