4 ms·

Define constant sexual harassment, what's the context? Just in general? What do you classify as actual sexual harassment? Everyone has their fair share of shit

by rfnslyr 13y ago

Define constant sexual harassment, what's the context? Just in general? What do you classify as actual sexual harassment? Everyone has their fair share of shit to deal with, it's unfair to place priority on a cause due to gender. What about all the shit guys have to deal with? Where are our support programs, where are our campaigns? For example: one of the things I'm struggling with is finding a girlfriend simply because I do not own a car, and yes I have been rejected on this because "although you're a great guy, if you can't drive me everywhere, I'll find someone lesser who can". Why is it that I have to initiate every relationship? Why do I have to play the "prove yourself" game? Let's not blow things out of proportion. Name calling is just that, name calling. Ignore it and move on, you need to develop a thick skin. Women have it great really great in this world. Yes there are things you can't change such as being physically weaker and symptoms of that (rape), but the entitlement I see from women is insane.

pyrocat 13y ago
You, as a man, have had more privileges and had to put up with less shit from strangers and society, than women. There's really no getting around that. Guys have to deal with gender bullshit too (expectations of wealth, car, muscles .etc), but as a rule, guys have more privilege than women.
- rfnslyr 13y ago
  expectations of wealth, car, muscles .etc You state these things like they are trivial. What do you have to put up with as a woman?
  - pyrocat 13y ago
    Ask your mom.
    - rfnslyr 13y ago
      My mom grew up in a farm in the middle of nowhere with nothing, in a heavily oppressed country, now she's a top tier executive at a bank. I don't think the touchy feely bullshit most women have to deal with and blog about holds a candle to what my Mom has been through, so I'm not sure your equation works. Thanks for the non-response.
      - pyrocat 13y ago
        Then ask her about her career at the bank and if she ever felt it would've progressed more easily if she was male. Otherwise you're just making assumptions about her feelings.
        rfnslyr 13y ago
        No, we've spoken about this intensely. It is our view that if it is not physically hurting you, find a way to mitigate it or use it to your advantage. My Mother knows her self worth. Sexist comments and remarks don't do anything to her, because she doesn't let others determine who she is or how she feels. If someone calls me a "faggot", why would I get mad? I'm not a "faggot", so how can this persons words possibly shape me into one? It just helps her differentiate the people she wants to associate with, and the idiots she doesn't want to associate with. When you grow up in SHIT, you tend to get lost in meaningless details like insults from people that don't matter to you. When you are fending for your life every single day against criminals, rapists, murders, and starvation for the first 20 years of your life, meaningless bullshit like "the white male patriarchy" tends to get lost on you. Insults and ill treatment excite us because it adds fuel to our fire, you now have a weapon to use against somebody. When we get insulted, we don't get upset, we collect it, and use it against them because ultimately it's meaningless and it's THEIR problem, not mine. My Mom got to where she was by being great at her job and being a very thick skinned and clever social engineer. The assholes were left behind. She could have dwelled, but she didn't. She could have cried all day and night about some off hand remark that probably wasn't even intentionally sexist in nature, but she didn't, and neither should you. We don't believe in modern pseudo-feminism, sorry. I work with loads of women from third world countries that worked their asses off for their entire early lives just to afford themselves the CHANCE of making it by coming to a first world country with $0. If they don't get off, where do you get off? Check your privilege.
  - callahad 13y ago
    There's a decent adaptation of Peggy McIntosh's white privilege checklist for male privilege over at http://amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/ http://amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/ It's certainly not great, but it's at least an ok starting point for considering disparities in societal privilege and expectations between gender presentations.
    - ps4fanboy 13y ago
      I would really like it if you could read this as I think you will see this checklist is bunk. 1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed. False, I work in IT, it is incredibly easy to get a job for a female, every place I worked for is desperate to hire women and say so. ... see more http://pastebin.com/zu16rEdU http://pastebin.com/zu16rEdU
      - ceol 13y ago
        I really do love that your answer to #1 proves #2. There are a handful of companies that are trying to get more women into tech. That's great! However, that doesn't mean #1 is wrong. It just means your industry (or even those companies) is in the minority.
        ps4fanboy 13y ago
        IT is a very big industry, I work in more of the higher end and in that area, there is a huge push to get more women in, these are the same companies that are incredibly hard to get jobs at for men. I think you will find that push to improve ratios is mostly concentrated on the preferred jobs, based on conditions or pay. I dont see anyone trying to improve ratios in female dominated jobs, like Teaching and Childcare, and if they did #2 would be the same for men in those cases. At quite a few companies I have worked at the pre-screening is done by the corporate HR department of which has been 100% female in my experience, then the next level is done by team managers and sales teams, which I have found to be fairly evenly split. It is only when you get into the trenches where the engineers are found that the ratio falls apart. The funny thing is we all work in the same building in the same office, so the company itself has a pretty good ratio its just the engineering jobs that dont have many women, so you cant say its a culture thing because the culture is the entire company not just one job type and/or segment. Anecdotal, when I do work for government clients they have a much higher female IT workforce especially engineers, they however get 3 weeks extra annual leave, 7 day fortnights and in some cases you can even work part time. And because of unions the pay is very competitive and if not more than the private sector. However there is a "glass ceiling" in government as all wages are set by collective bargaining and applies to everyone. Where in the private sector you have much more latitude to increase your earning potential at the expense of your free time and personal life, something that a lot of my co-workers (men) do to increase the opportunities that their families are offered. It is this kind of work that some of the female engineers are reluctant to do this, and I would say rightful so, from my discussions with them they are not motivated by the pay but are striving for a balance with work and family. However the men I work with are under a lot of pressure to cover their wives earnings so she can stay and look after the children, something they (the wives) are asking for. It is a very complex topic but I dont think you can truly have 50/50 ratios in every industry without first removing any difference in motivation to work between men and women, and those with and without families. These motivation factors create a huge bias in how people subjectively choose their working conditions and environment.

by rfnslyr 13y ago

pyrocat 13y ago

You, as a man, have had more privileges and had to put up with less shit from strangers and society, than women. There's really no getting around that. Guys have to deal with gender bullshit too (expectations of wealth, car, muscles .etc), but as a rule, guys have more privilege than women.

rfnslyr 13y ago
expectations of wealth, car, muscles .etc You state these things like they are trivial. What do you have to put up with as a woman?
- pyrocat 13y ago
  Ask your mom.
  - rfnslyr 13y ago
    My mom grew up in a farm in the middle of nowhere with nothing, in a heavily oppressed country, now she's a top tier executive at a bank. I don't think the touchy feely bullshit most women have to deal with and blog about holds a candle to what my Mom has been through, so I'm not sure your equation works. Thanks for the non-response.
    - pyrocat 13y ago
      Then ask her about her career at the bank and if she ever felt it would've progressed more easily if she was male. Otherwise you're just making assumptions about her feelings.
      - rfnslyr 13y ago
        No, we've spoken about this intensely. It is our view that if it is not physically hurting you, find a way to mitigate it or use it to your advantage. My Mother knows her self worth. Sexist comments and remarks don't do anything to her, because she doesn't let others determine who she is or how she feels. If someone calls me a "faggot", why would I get mad? I'm not a "faggot", so how can this persons words possibly shape me into one? It just helps her differentiate the people she wants to associate with, and the idiots she doesn't want to associate with. When you grow up in SHIT, you tend to get lost in meaningless details like insults from people that don't matter to you. When you are fending for your life every single day against criminals, rapists, murders, and starvation for the first 20 years of your life, meaningless bullshit like "the white male patriarchy" tends to get lost on you. Insults and ill treatment excite us because it adds fuel to our fire, you now have a weapon to use against somebody. When we get insulted, we don't get upset, we collect it, and use it against them because ultimately it's meaningless and it's THEIR problem, not mine. My Mom got to where she was by being great at her job and being a very thick skinned and clever social engineer. The assholes were left behind. She could have dwelled, but she didn't. She could have cried all day and night about some off hand remark that probably wasn't even intentionally sexist in nature, but she didn't, and neither should you. We don't believe in modern pseudo-feminism, sorry. I work with loads of women from third world countries that worked their asses off for their entire early lives just to afford themselves the CHANCE of making it by coming to a first world country with $0. If they don't get off, where do you get off? Check your privilege.
- callahad 13y ago
  There's a decent adaptation of Peggy McIntosh's white privilege checklist for male privilege over at http://amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/ http://amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/ It's certainly not great, but it's at least an ok starting point for considering disparities in societal privilege and expectations between gender presentations.
  - ps4fanboy 13y ago
    I would really like it if you could read this as I think you will see this checklist is bunk. 1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed. False, I work in IT, it is incredibly easy to get a job for a female, every place I worked for is desperate to hire women and say so. ... see more http://pastebin.com/zu16rEdU http://pastebin.com/zu16rEdU
    - ceol 13y ago
      I really do love that your answer to #1 proves #2. There are a handful of companies that are trying to get more women into tech. That's great! However, that doesn't mean #1 is wrong. It just means your industry (or even those companies) is in the minority.
      - ps4fanboy 13y ago
        IT is a very big industry, I work in more of the higher end and in that area, there is a huge push to get more women in, these are the same companies that are incredibly hard to get jobs at for men. I think you will find that push to improve ratios is mostly concentrated on the preferred jobs, based on conditions or pay. I dont see anyone trying to improve ratios in female dominated jobs, like Teaching and Childcare, and if they did #2 would be the same for men in those cases. At quite a few companies I have worked at the pre-screening is done by the corporate HR department of which has been 100% female in my experience, then the next level is done by team managers and sales teams, which I have found to be fairly evenly split. It is only when you get into the trenches where the engineers are found that the ratio falls apart. The funny thing is we all work in the same building in the same office, so the company itself has a pretty good ratio its just the engineering jobs that dont have many women, so you cant say its a culture thing because the culture is the entire company not just one job type and/or segment. Anecdotal, when I do work for government clients they have a much higher female IT workforce especially engineers, they however get 3 weeks extra annual leave, 7 day fortnights and in some cases you can even work part time. And because of unions the pay is very competitive and if not more than the private sector. However there is a "glass ceiling" in government as all wages are set by collective bargaining and applies to everyone. Where in the private sector you have much more latitude to increase your earning potential at the expense of your free time and personal life, something that a lot of my co-workers (men) do to increase the opportunities that their families are offered. It is this kind of work that some of the female engineers are reluctant to do this, and I would say rightful so, from my discussions with them they are not motivated by the pay but are striving for a balance with work and family. However the men I work with are under a lot of pressure to cover their wives earnings so she can stay and look after the children, something they (the wives) are asking for. It is a very complex topic but I dont think you can truly have 50/50 ratios in every industry without first removing any difference in motivation to work between men and women, and those with and without families. These motivation factors create a huge bias in how people subjectively choose their working conditions and environment.