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As usual, a discussion of bullying which makes no attempt to understand the bullies beyond broad suppositions of demography. Approximately 16 billion words have

As usual, a discussion of bullying which makes no attempt to understand the bullies beyond broad suppositions of demography. Approximately 16 billion words have been written about how bullies are terrible people, etc. etc., yet your condemnations seem to have little effect - what was Einstein's definition of insanity? Try something new. When you want to harass someone - and let's be honest, you, dear reader, have indeed wanted to harass someone at some point in your life - what do you do? You pick something you believe they will be sensitive to and remind them of it in a mean-spirited way. So, if the bully can tell you're a girl in a male-dominated space, that's what he's going to pick. You may (and problably do) receive this as worse harassment than I receive being called a faggot ("Lol another guy calling me a faggot"), but the bully doesn't need to be a worse person in order to choose to harass you in that way. Both times, it's the exact same guy, and both times, he's just reaching into his insult grab bag. What's he's not doing (necessarily, anyways) by calling you a "stupid slut" is revealing his deep-seated mistrust of women. If you're coming to that conclusion, you're overrating the complexity of the thought process that goes into online harassment. Which is to say, the problem is not what he thinks - it's that he's not.

pyrocat 13y ago
Would you agree that there's a difference in severity between telling a man "I'm going to come to your house and rape you, you stupid faggot" and telling a woman "I'm going to come to your house and rape you, you stupid whore"? The latter has much more weight, as at least 1 in 5 women in America will be raped in their lifetime. (edit: 1 in 6 is more accurate http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assau...) It's not an unrealistic threat, and it's much more likely to bring up trauma.
- gametheoretic 13y ago
  Yes I would. But I would disagree that that difference is relevant to understanding the problem. In a nutshell, that was the point of my post. Understanding must come first.
  - pyrocat 13y ago
    Bullies will find a way to harass people, regardless of gender, is your point? I agree with that. The article is trying to point out that the gaming community is hostile towards women. I don't think your point is all that relevant to the discussion.
    - ps4fanboy 13y ago
      But it masks the true problem, that online communities tend to be hostile to everyone. Not just gaming communities and not just women.
      - pyrocat 13y ago
        Bullshit. They are not equally hostile to everyone.
        ps4fanboy 13y ago
        Are you saying this anecdotally or do you have data to back this up?
        pyrocat 13y ago
        http://blog.pricecharting.com/2012/09/emilyami-sexism-in-video-games-study.html http://blog.pricecharting.com/2012/09/emilyami-sexism-in-vid... Not as academic as I'm sure we'd both like, but there's not a lot of funding for studies that deal with online harassment.
        transitionality 13y ago
        How can there be more online harassment against women when most hardcore gamers are men? You're full of shit.
        ps4fanboy 13y ago
        This is a study about sexism not harassment.
- BlackDeath3 13y ago
  Are you suggesting that this hypothetical situation is much more likely to bring up traumatic emotions, or are you suggesting that more women are actually attacked as a result of online encounters? If the former, then I'm not convinced that other peoples' reactions to things that somebody says (over the Internet, no less) should be that person's responsibility. If the latter, then that's quite the claim, and one without a shred of proof from you.
  - pyrocat 13y ago
    The former. If you're not convinced other peoples reactions to what you say matter, then try making dead baby jokes in front of someone who's had a miscarriage. As for the latter, I would suggest instead that more women are driven away from the gaming community because of online encounters. People can say "oh just ignore it" or "grow a thicker skin", but with that reaction eventually you'll have a community of just male gamers who don't mind being told they're going to be raped while playing a game.
    - transitionality 13y ago
      You do not have a right to not be offended.
      - BlackDeath3 13y ago
        And more than that, if I spent the time required to avoid offending people that I talked to, I wouldn't have any time left over to think about anything else. I'm not willing to do that, for more reasons than just that I value my time highly.
        transitionality 13y ago
        I value my right to free speech at least as highly as I value my time, possibly more.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Would you agree that there's a difference in severity between telling a man "I'm going to come to your house and rape you, you stupid faggot" and telling a woman "I'm going to come to your house and rape you, you stupid whore"? The latter has much more weight, as at least 1 in 5 women in America will be raped in their lifetime. Granting, for the sake of argument, the basic premise that the latter statement would have greater weight if the proportion of women who would be raped in their lifetime was greater than the proportion of men for whom that is true [1], and granting the assertion about the lower bound on the prevalence of rape victimization for women [2], you would need to also provide [3] an upper bound on the prevalence of rape victimization for men that was lower than that lower bound for women for this to work. [1] Which I would not grant except for the sake of argument, without additional argument for it, because there are a number of problems I see with that premise on its face, but they are secondary to the more glaring problem of the missing comparison. [2] Which really should be supported by something. [3] And, as in [2], support.
  - pyrocat 13y ago
    You're really going to argue that more men are raped than women in America?
    - dragonwriter 13y ago
      > You're really going to argue that more men are raped than women in America? No, I'm going to argue that if you choose to make an argument implicitly premised on the different rape victimization by sex, you can't support it with just an unsupported statistic for one sex.
      - pyrocat 13y ago
        http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assau... > About 3% of American men — or 1 in 33 — have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.1 > In 2003, 1 in every ten rape victims were male.2
- ps4fanboy 13y ago
  I am not sure why you think its realistic to take the threat of rape while playing a video game seriously. Do you have any data to back up this claim that it is in fact a serious threat? I am not trying to detract from the message that it is bad but this seems silly.
  - pyrocat 13y ago
    I'm saying it's more of a realistic threat to women than it is to men. And because of data (http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assau...), when it's a women, the likelyhood that the person hearing the threat has been raped is pretty high.
    - ps4fanboy 13y ago
      Where is the data that shows how many people who have been raped after playing a video game.
    - transitionality 13y ago
      That statistic is complete bunk. http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/02/one-in-four-lie-demolished-once-and-for.html http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/02/one-in-four-lie... Rape is a bigger threat to men. http://betweenletters.quora.com/More-Men-Are-Raped-In-the-US-Than-Women http://betweenletters.quora.com/More-Men-Are-Raped-In-the-US... You knowingly perpetrate lies under a sexist agenda. You have absolutely no shame.
      - ceol 13y ago
        Neither of your links cite any actual sources, and the second link conflates "reported rapes" with "estimated rapes". I'm actually concerned why you aren't hellbanned yet.
        transitionality 13y ago
        The former cites its source, and the latter is US Justice Department figures. You're a typical female supremacist. You try to ban what you can't shout down. You're sickening.
- transitionality 13y ago
  That statistic is complete bunk. http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/02/one-in-four-lie-demolished-once-and-for.html http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/02/one-in-four-lie...
  - ceol 13y ago
    You seem to have a thing for posting sources that don't cite anything they claim.
    - transitionality 13y ago
      It cites its source. It's a link. Try clicking on it.

pyrocat 13y ago

Would you agree that there's a difference in severity between telling a man "I'm going to come to your house and rape you, you stupid faggot" and telling a woman "I'm going to come to your house and rape you, you stupid whore"? The latter has much more weight, as at least 1 in 5 women in America will be raped in their lifetime. (edit: 1 in 6 is more accurate http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assau...) It's not an unrealistic threat, and it's much more likely to bring up trauma.

gametheoretic 13y ago
Yes I would. But I would disagree that that difference is relevant to understanding the problem. In a nutshell, that was the point of my post. Understanding must come first.
- pyrocat 13y ago
  Bullies will find a way to harass people, regardless of gender, is your point? I agree with that. The article is trying to point out that the gaming community is hostile towards women. I don't think your point is all that relevant to the discussion.
  - ps4fanboy 13y ago
    But it masks the true problem, that online communities tend to be hostile to everyone. Not just gaming communities and not just women.
    - pyrocat 13y ago
      Bullshit. They are not equally hostile to everyone.
      - ps4fanboy 13y ago
        Are you saying this anecdotally or do you have data to back this up?
        pyrocat 13y ago
        http://blog.pricecharting.com/2012/09/emilyami-sexism-in-video-games-study.html http://blog.pricecharting.com/2012/09/emilyami-sexism-in-vid... Not as academic as I'm sure we'd both like, but there's not a lot of funding for studies that deal with online harassment.
        transitionality 13y ago
        How can there be more online harassment against women when most hardcore gamers are men? You're full of shit.
        ps4fanboy 13y ago
        This is a study about sexism not harassment.
BlackDeath3 13y ago
Are you suggesting that this hypothetical situation is much more likely to bring up traumatic emotions, or are you suggesting that more women are actually attacked as a result of online encounters? If the former, then I'm not convinced that other peoples' reactions to things that somebody says (over the Internet, no less) should be that person's responsibility. If the latter, then that's quite the claim, and one without a shred of proof from you.
- pyrocat 13y ago
  The former. If you're not convinced other peoples reactions to what you say matter, then try making dead baby jokes in front of someone who's had a miscarriage. As for the latter, I would suggest instead that more women are driven away from the gaming community because of online encounters. People can say "oh just ignore it" or "grow a thicker skin", but with that reaction eventually you'll have a community of just male gamers who don't mind being told they're going to be raped while playing a game.
  - transitionality 13y ago
    You do not have a right to not be offended.
    - BlackDeath3 13y ago
      And more than that, if I spent the time required to avoid offending people that I talked to, I wouldn't have any time left over to think about anything else. I'm not willing to do that, for more reasons than just that I value my time highly.
      - transitionality 13y ago
        I value my right to free speech at least as highly as I value my time, possibly more.
dragonwriter 13y ago
> Would you agree that there's a difference in severity between telling a man "I'm going to come to your house and rape you, you stupid faggot" and telling a woman "I'm going to come to your house and rape you, you stupid whore"? The latter has much more weight, as at least 1 in 5 women in America will be raped in their lifetime. Granting, for the sake of argument, the basic premise that the latter statement would have greater weight if the proportion of women who would be raped in their lifetime was greater than the proportion of men for whom that is true [1], and granting the assertion about the lower bound on the prevalence of rape victimization for women [2], you would need to also provide [3] an upper bound on the prevalence of rape victimization for men that was lower than that lower bound for women for this to work. [1] Which I would not grant except for the sake of argument, without additional argument for it, because there are a number of problems I see with that premise on its face, but they are secondary to the more glaring problem of the missing comparison. [2] Which really should be supported by something. [3] And, as in [2], support.
- pyrocat 13y ago
  You're really going to argue that more men are raped than women in America?
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > You're really going to argue that more men are raped than women in America? No, I'm going to argue that if you choose to make an argument implicitly premised on the different rape victimization by sex, you can't support it with just an unsupported statistic for one sex.
    - pyrocat 13y ago
      http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assau... > About 3% of American men — or 1 in 33 — have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.1 > In 2003, 1 in every ten rape victims were male.2
ps4fanboy 13y ago
I am not sure why you think its realistic to take the threat of rape while playing a video game seriously. Do you have any data to back up this claim that it is in fact a serious threat? I am not trying to detract from the message that it is bad but this seems silly.
- pyrocat 13y ago
  I'm saying it's more of a realistic threat to women than it is to men. And because of data (http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assau...), when it's a women, the likelyhood that the person hearing the threat has been raped is pretty high.
  - ps4fanboy 13y ago
    Where is the data that shows how many people who have been raped after playing a video game.
  - transitionality 13y ago
    That statistic is complete bunk. http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/02/one-in-four-lie-demolished-once-and-for.html http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/02/one-in-four-lie... Rape is a bigger threat to men. http://betweenletters.quora.com/More-Men-Are-Raped-In-the-US-Than-Women http://betweenletters.quora.com/More-Men-Are-Raped-In-the-US... You knowingly perpetrate lies under a sexist agenda. You have absolutely no shame.
    - ceol 13y ago
      Neither of your links cite any actual sources, and the second link conflates "reported rapes" with "estimated rapes". I'm actually concerned why you aren't hellbanned yet.
      - transitionality 13y ago
        The former cites its source, and the latter is US Justice Department figures. You're a typical female supremacist. You try to ban what you can't shout down. You're sickening.
transitionality 13y ago
That statistic is complete bunk. http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/02/one-in-four-lie-demolished-once-and-for.html http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2011/02/one-in-four-lie...
- ceol 13y ago
  You seem to have a thing for posting sources that don't cite anything they claim.
  - transitionality 13y ago
    It cites its source. It's a link. Try clicking on it.