7 ms·

> it's just words. Ignore them. This advice is pretty hollow coming from someone who doesn't have to put up with constant sexual harassment, who doesn't have t

by pyrocat 13y ago

> it's just words. Ignore them. This advice is pretty hollow coming from someone who doesn't have to put up with constant sexual harassment, who doesn't have to deal with cat calls and the fear of being raped that comes with them, and who can use their real voice on game chat without getting rape threats. Check your privilege.

ps4fanboy 13y ago
You dont think being called a fagget is sexual harassment?
- pyrocat 13y ago
  It is, but unless you actually are gay in real life and have had to deal with being called a faggot in real life, I'm going to have more sympathy for females who have to deal with sexual harassment online. They're both terrible behavior that we (as a gaming community) should object to when we hear it.
  - ps4fanboy 13y ago
    I have sympathy for everyone who is harassed online, I do not think anyone is actually being singled out for harassment because of who or what they are. If people really wanted to fix it they need to admit that this fact is true first, because treating this as a sexism problem is disingenuous.
    - pyrocat 13y ago
      Women get way way way more shit online than men. Ignoring that is disingenuous.
      - ps4fanboy 13y ago
        You seem to be making a lot of assertions of fact without anything to back it up. I would say that is disingenuous.
        pyrocat 13y ago
        Fair enough, I just assumed people would accept the premise that women get more harassment online than men without me having to cite a study. It seems pretty obvious to me.
        ps4fanboy 13y ago
        Lets think about it for a second though, if gaming is male dominated and incredibly hostile and full of harassment wouldn't the victim of the harassment be predominately male?
        pyrocat 13y ago
        > the premise that women get more harassment online than men If you are a woman, online, than you'll be harassed more than if you were a man, online. If you want to go by ratio, then yeah, but that has nothing to do with the argument. The point is that the gaming community is driving away women with this behavior.
        ps4fanboy 13y ago
        "The point is that the gaming community is driving away women with this behavior", I havent seen any studies or research to suggest that women stop playing games after being harassed, no more or less than men.
        transitionality 13y ago
        It does, in fact, have to do with your claim that harassment happens to women more often. That can't be the case if men outnumber women by a large factor, which is the case in hardcore gaming.
        hrkristian 13y ago
        The "community" has no obligation to keep people in, it is the individual's choice what to do and how to deal with anything resulting from that choice. As for women vs men, we all take our daily abuse, and in an anonymous online community the level of abuse is just that much higher. We learn to deal with the adolescent abuse because that's the only remedy. Bullies will be bullies, they hone in on (perceived) weaknesses, when a woman feels harassed in an online community, it's not the fault of the community at large, it's just a fact of the world we live in. I no longer play games, but I used to play a lot online, the abuse was daily. I and men I know receive non-violent abuse daily in real life well, not to mention the physical threats flying around; know that as a man anyone anywhere has the "right" to threaten you just for being a man. (Check your female privilege.) Female harassment is a sham, it's just general harassment. Difference is women are allowed to complain and make a fuzz. Ideally we'd all be allowed to do so.
- sockypuppy 13y ago
  In this context, probably not. See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6938877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6938877
richforrester 13y ago
I'm obviously not talking about actual rape happening. But let's for a second compare it to "I'll beat you up, son!" and the like. It's the internet. It happens. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that half of the examples on the site that was linked in that article, are nothing more than someone typing the word "b*tch" behind some random insults.
- SheepSlapper 13y ago
  Yeah, there are a lot of assholes on the internet[1]. You can either choose to let it get to you, or you can recognize it for what it is and get on with your life. [1] http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19 http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
BlackDeath3 13y ago
And the Academy Award for Best Drama goes to... Let's not pick at straw men here. If you don't see the difference between real rape threats and Xbox LIVE shit talk, you need not wonder why you may make such an easy target for online bullies. "Check your privilege"? Putting aside the fact that that phrase just sounds gross, perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to assume the situations of online strangers. Check your logic.
- Symbol 13y ago
  There is a difference between "shit talk" and rooting out personal contact information to then send death or rape threats. I don't think anyone expects an experience akin to high tea with the Queen, but no one deserves to be threatened. Everyone, consciously or not, wants respect. It's simple in theory but hard in practice. It likely has to come from guidance. As a parent, I expect I will have to teach her how to engage with people both on and offline. There's a reason we force kids to line up and shake the opposing team's hands after a soccer game.
  - BlackDeath3 13y ago
    >There is a difference between "shit talk" and rooting out personal contact information to then send death or rape threats. Of course there is. The problem with this conversation is that it appears to be a polymorphic one. Which of the two are we talking about? I would imagine that there is no consensus on this.
rfnslyr 13y ago
Define constant sexual harassment, what's the context? Just in general? What do you classify as actual sexual harassment? Everyone has their fair share of shit to deal with, it's unfair to place priority on a cause due to gender. What about all the shit guys have to deal with? Where are our support programs, where are our campaigns? For example: one of the things I'm struggling with is finding a girlfriend simply because I do not own a car, and yes I have been rejected on this because "although you're a great guy, if you can't drive me everywhere, I'll find someone lesser who can". Why is it that I have to initiate every relationship? Why do I have to play the "prove yourself" game? Let's not blow things out of proportion. Name calling is just that, name calling. Ignore it and move on, you need to develop a thick skin. Women have it great really great in this world. Yes there are things you can't change such as being physically weaker and symptoms of that (rape), but the entitlement I see from women is insane.
- pyrocat 13y ago
  You, as a man, have had more privileges and had to put up with less shit from strangers and society, than women. There's really no getting around that. Guys have to deal with gender bullshit too (expectations of wealth, car, muscles .etc), but as a rule, guys have more privilege than women.
  - rfnslyr 13y ago
    expectations of wealth, car, muscles .etc You state these things like they are trivial. What do you have to put up with as a woman?
    - pyrocat 13y ago
      Ask your mom.
      - rfnslyr 13y ago
        My mom grew up in a farm in the middle of nowhere with nothing, in a heavily oppressed country, now she's a top tier executive at a bank. I don't think the touchy feely bullshit most women have to deal with and blog about holds a candle to what my Mom has been through, so I'm not sure your equation works. Thanks for the non-response.
nightski 13y ago
Both my girlfriend and I play games regularly online and alone (and have all our lives). She has never received a rape threat. I wonder why?
- kevingadd 13y ago
  Because anecdotes aren't data? This is a site aimed at hackers and programmers and you really think the utterly thoughtless logic underlying your post passes muster?
  - flocial 13y ago
    Of which the article linked is a shining example of evidence-backed reasoning.
  - mynameismonkey 13y ago
    The entire OP is anecdote. I'm a gamer. I'm in a guild. We have female members. We all, regardless of gender, have at some point been the target of idiots trying to bully. While it is impossible to deny the existence of the cesspit, I take umbrage at it being perceived as the majority of we gamers. It is a problem, yes. But please don't lump me and my entire guild into the same bucket.
    - pyrocat 13y ago
      Uh, no one is? The article is very clear about who the problem is.
      - transitionality 13y ago
        Yes. It's also wrong. The article itself is the problem, and so are you.
        pyrocat 13y ago
        I'd love to hear your reasoning.

by pyrocat 13y ago

ps4fanboy 13y ago

You dont think being called a fagget is sexual harassment?

pyrocat 13y ago
It is, but unless you actually are gay in real life and have had to deal with being called a faggot in real life, I'm going to have more sympathy for females who have to deal with sexual harassment online. They're both terrible behavior that we (as a gaming community) should object to when we hear it.
- ps4fanboy 13y ago
  I have sympathy for everyone who is harassed online, I do not think anyone is actually being singled out for harassment because of who or what they are. If people really wanted to fix it they need to admit that this fact is true first, because treating this as a sexism problem is disingenuous.
  - pyrocat 13y ago
    Women get way way way more shit online than men. Ignoring that is disingenuous.
    - ps4fanboy 13y ago
      You seem to be making a lot of assertions of fact without anything to back it up. I would say that is disingenuous.
      - pyrocat 13y ago
        Fair enough, I just assumed people would accept the premise that women get more harassment online than men without me having to cite a study. It seems pretty obvious to me.
        ps4fanboy 13y ago
        Lets think about it for a second though, if gaming is male dominated and incredibly hostile and full of harassment wouldn't the victim of the harassment be predominately male?
        pyrocat 13y ago
        > the premise that women get more harassment online than men If you are a woman, online, than you'll be harassed more than if you were a man, online. If you want to go by ratio, then yeah, but that has nothing to do with the argument. The point is that the gaming community is driving away women with this behavior.
        ps4fanboy 13y ago
        "The point is that the gaming community is driving away women with this behavior", I havent seen any studies or research to suggest that women stop playing games after being harassed, no more or less than men.
        transitionality 13y ago
        It does, in fact, have to do with your claim that harassment happens to women more often. That can't be the case if men outnumber women by a large factor, which is the case in hardcore gaming.
        hrkristian 13y ago
        The "community" has no obligation to keep people in, it is the individual's choice what to do and how to deal with anything resulting from that choice. As for women vs men, we all take our daily abuse, and in an anonymous online community the level of abuse is just that much higher. We learn to deal with the adolescent abuse because that's the only remedy. Bullies will be bullies, they hone in on (perceived) weaknesses, when a woman feels harassed in an online community, it's not the fault of the community at large, it's just a fact of the world we live in. I no longer play games, but I used to play a lot online, the abuse was daily. I and men I know receive non-violent abuse daily in real life well, not to mention the physical threats flying around; know that as a man anyone anywhere has the "right" to threaten you just for being a man. (Check your female privilege.) Female harassment is a sham, it's just general harassment. Difference is women are allowed to complain and make a fuzz. Ideally we'd all be allowed to do so.
sockypuppy 13y ago
In this context, probably not. See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6938877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6938877

richforrester 13y ago

I'm obviously not talking about actual rape happening. But let's for a second compare it to "I'll beat you up, son!" and the like. It's the internet. It happens. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that half of the examples on the site that was linked in that article, are nothing more than someone typing the word "b*tch" behind some random insults.

SheepSlapper 13y ago
Yeah, there are a lot of assholes on the internet[1]. You can either choose to let it get to you, or you can recognize it for what it is and get on with your life. [1] http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19 http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

BlackDeath3 13y ago

And the Academy Award for Best Drama goes to... Let's not pick at straw men here. If you don't see the difference between real rape threats and Xbox LIVE shit talk, you need not wonder why you may make such an easy target for online bullies. "Check your privilege"? Putting aside the fact that that phrase just sounds gross, perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to assume the situations of online strangers. Check your logic.

Symbol 13y ago
There is a difference between "shit talk" and rooting out personal contact information to then send death or rape threats. I don't think anyone expects an experience akin to high tea with the Queen, but no one deserves to be threatened. Everyone, consciously or not, wants respect. It's simple in theory but hard in practice. It likely has to come from guidance. As a parent, I expect I will have to teach her how to engage with people both on and offline. There's a reason we force kids to line up and shake the opposing team's hands after a soccer game.
- BlackDeath3 13y ago
  >There is a difference between "shit talk" and rooting out personal contact information to then send death or rape threats. Of course there is. The problem with this conversation is that it appears to be a polymorphic one. Which of the two are we talking about? I would imagine that there is no consensus on this.

rfnslyr 13y ago

Define constant sexual harassment, what's the context? Just in general? What do you classify as actual sexual harassment? Everyone has their fair share of shit to deal with, it's unfair to place priority on a cause due to gender. What about all the shit guys have to deal with? Where are our support programs, where are our campaigns? For example: one of the things I'm struggling with is finding a girlfriend simply because I do not own a car, and yes I have been rejected on this because "although you're a great guy, if you can't drive me everywhere, I'll find someone lesser who can". Why is it that I have to initiate every relationship? Why do I have to play the "prove yourself" game? Let's not blow things out of proportion. Name calling is just that, name calling. Ignore it and move on, you need to develop a thick skin. Women have it great really great in this world. Yes there are things you can't change such as being physically weaker and symptoms of that (rape), but the entitlement I see from women is insane.

pyrocat 13y ago
You, as a man, have had more privileges and had to put up with less shit from strangers and society, than women. There's really no getting around that. Guys have to deal with gender bullshit too (expectations of wealth, car, muscles .etc), but as a rule, guys have more privilege than women.
- rfnslyr 13y ago
  expectations of wealth, car, muscles .etc You state these things like they are trivial. What do you have to put up with as a woman?
  - pyrocat 13y ago
    Ask your mom.
    - rfnslyr 13y ago
      My mom grew up in a farm in the middle of nowhere with nothing, in a heavily oppressed country, now she's a top tier executive at a bank. I don't think the touchy feely bullshit most women have to deal with and blog about holds a candle to what my Mom has been through, so I'm not sure your equation works. Thanks for the non-response.

nightski 13y ago

Both my girlfriend and I play games regularly online and alone (and have all our lives). She has never received a rape threat. I wonder why?

kevingadd 13y ago
Because anecdotes aren't data? This is a site aimed at hackers and programmers and you really think the utterly thoughtless logic underlying your post passes muster?
- flocial 13y ago
  Of which the article linked is a shining example of evidence-backed reasoning.
- mynameismonkey 13y ago
  The entire OP is anecdote. I'm a gamer. I'm in a guild. We have female members. We all, regardless of gender, have at some point been the target of idiots trying to bully. While it is impossible to deny the existence of the cesspit, I take umbrage at it being perceived as the majority of we gamers. It is a problem, yes. But please don't lump me and my entire guild into the same bucket.
  - pyrocat 13y ago
    Uh, no one is? The article is very clear about who the problem is.
    - transitionality 13y ago
      Yes. It's also wrong. The article itself is the problem, and so are you.
      - pyrocat 13y ago
        I'd love to hear your reasoning.