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Did you notice how that study didn't control for anything? Like say, the reasons that fathers were seeking sole custody? Fathers virtually only seek sole cust

by asdasf 13y ago

Did you notice how that study didn't control for anything? Like say, the reasons that fathers were seeking sole custody? Fathers virtually only seek sole custody when the mother is abusive or grossly negligent. In cases where the mother is not abusive or negligent, fathers almost always accept minimal joint custody as they feel it is what is best for the children. The fact that people throw this around as some sick attempt to portray fathers are not caring about their children and the courts being totally fair is disgusting.

rayiner 13y ago
The results are similar for several studies that do not look just at fathers who seek sole custody. See this meta-analysis of several studies: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/Massachusetts_Gender_Bias_Study.htm http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/Massachusetts_Gender_Bias.... I'll quote the relevant part: """ Although perceptions of bias that discourage fathers from seeking custody are a concern, n52 the outcome of cases in which custody is contested provides a more direct source of information about possible judicial gender bias. We heard testimony from George Kelly, a representative of Concerned Fathers, that in contested custody cases, mothers are awarded physical custody over 90% of the time. Mr. Kelly was unable to provide substantiation, however, n53 and our own investigation revealed a very different picture. The statewide sample of attorneys who responded to the family law survey had collectively represented fathers seeking custody in over 2,100 cases in the last 5 years. n54 They reported that the fathers obtained primary physical custody in 29% of the cases, and joint physical custody in an additional 65% of the cases. Thus, when fathers actively sought physical custody, mothers obtained primary physical custody in only 7% of cases. The attorneys reported that the fathers had been primary caretakers in 29% of the cases in which they had sought custody. The preliminary findings of the Middlesex Divorce Research Group relitigation study show a similarly high rate of paternal success, but fewer awards of joint physical custody. In their sample of 700 cases in Middlesex County between 1978 and 1984, fathers had sought custody in 57 cases (8.14% of the sample). In two-thirds of the cases in which fathers sought custody, they received primary physical custody (42% in which fathers were awarded sole legal and sole physical custody, plus [*832] 25% in which fathers were awarded joint legal and primary physical custody). Joint physical and joint legal custody was awarded in 3.5% of cases. In 11% of the cases, mothers received primary physical and joint legal custody; in 12%, mothers were awarded sole legal and physical custody; other custodial arrangements were ordered in the remaining cases. Thus, when fathers sought custody, mothers received primary physical custody in fewer than one-quarter of the cases in the Middlesex study. Information about which parent had been the primary caretaker was not available for the Middlesex cases. These trends were apparent in an earlier study of a sample of 500 Middlesex County cases filed between 1978 and 1981. Fathers had sought sole custody in about 8% of the cases. They received sole custody in 41% of those cases, and joint custody in 38%. In 5% of the cases, custody went to someone other than a parent. In instances in which fathers sought sole custody, mothers received sole custody in only 15% of the cases (Phear et al., 1983). These statistics may be a surprise to many. They are, however, consistent with findings in other states. A study of court records in Los Angeles County, California, in 1977 found that fathers who sought sole custody obtained it in 63% of the cases (up from a success rate of 37% in 1972) (Weitzman, 1985, p. 233). A nationwide survey of all reported appellate decisions in child custody cases in 1982 found that fathers obtained custody in 51% of the cases, up from an estimated 10% in 1980 (Atkinson, 1984). The high success rate of fathers does not by itself establish gender bias against women. Additional evidence, however, indicates that women may be less able to afford the lawyers and experts needed in contested custody cases (see "Family Law Overview") and that, in contested cases, different and stricter standards are applied to mothers. """
- LekkoscPiwa 13y ago
  These studies are underpinned by sexism, racism, represent xenophobia and people who conducted them surely have issues with relating themselves to the opposite sex. Now, try discussing that. Beceause this is what you'll get once you'll present a study showing men are better soldiers than women to a feminist. And nobody cares. Equality at the Army, period. Actually special treatment for women because apparently they need to run just 4 miles to get to the Marines when males have to run 6 miles. Because obviously the enemy will stop 2 miles short just to treat our female soldiers better than others. Or like this precious thing that a women in the uniform can't have be moving machine gun. It is too heavy for her for goodness sake. This is all about special treatment and not equality. So maybe that's how we (males) should start rolling as well. 50% cases children go to the fathers, period. If you don't agree you are a sexist xenophobic in need of a psychological treatment for aggression impulses and the whole study is a hate speech.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    It's hard for me to respond to an argument you're apparently having with someone else.
    - LekkoscPiwa 13y ago
      Of course. It's impossible to respond when you have provided good logical evidence and get emotional instability and calling names in return. I just wanted you to got through the exercise to see that whatever feminists demand, whether it is logical or makes sense or not - they get. And if you try to respond in logical fashion, you get this, what I gave you. Just to prove a point. Females are more important to children than males. I agree 100%, you don't need to provide me with any evidence. That's common sense. The same way males are better soldiers than females. I agree 100%. You don't need to provide me with any evidence. That's common sense. But why we live in society where we apply logic to certain things (like divorces and who gets children as their result), and to other (i.e. female soldiers) we would rather gag logic in the name of the political correctness, is beyond me.

by asdasf 13y ago

rayiner 13y ago

The results are similar for several studies that do not look just at fathers who seek sole custody. See this meta-analysis of several studies: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/Massachusetts_Gender_Bias_Study.htm http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/Massachusetts_Gender_Bias.... I'll quote the relevant part: """ Although perceptions of bias that discourage fathers from seeking custody are a concern, n52 the outcome of cases in which custody is contested provides a more direct source of information about possible judicial gender bias. We heard testimony from George Kelly, a representative of Concerned Fathers, that in contested custody cases, mothers are awarded physical custody over 90% of the time. Mr. Kelly was unable to provide substantiation, however, n53 and our own investigation revealed a very different picture. The statewide sample of attorneys who responded to the family law survey had collectively represented fathers seeking custody in over 2,100 cases in the last 5 years. n54 They reported that the fathers obtained primary physical custody in 29% of the cases, and joint physical custody in an additional 65% of the cases. Thus, when fathers actively sought physical custody, mothers obtained primary physical custody in only 7% of cases. The attorneys reported that the fathers had been primary caretakers in 29% of the cases in which they had sought custody. The preliminary findings of the Middlesex Divorce Research Group relitigation study show a similarly high rate of paternal success, but fewer awards of joint physical custody. In their sample of 700 cases in Middlesex County between 1978 and 1984, fathers had sought custody in 57 cases (8.14% of the sample). In two-thirds of the cases in which fathers sought custody, they received primary physical custody (42% in which fathers were awarded sole legal and sole physical custody, plus [*832] 25% in which fathers were awarded joint legal and primary physical custody). Joint physical and joint legal custody was awarded in 3.5% of cases. In 11% of the cases, mothers received primary physical and joint legal custody; in 12%, mothers were awarded sole legal and physical custody; other custodial arrangements were ordered in the remaining cases. Thus, when fathers sought custody, mothers received primary physical custody in fewer than one-quarter of the cases in the Middlesex study. Information about which parent had been the primary caretaker was not available for the Middlesex cases. These trends were apparent in an earlier study of a sample of 500 Middlesex County cases filed between 1978 and 1981. Fathers had sought sole custody in about 8% of the cases. They received sole custody in 41% of those cases, and joint custody in 38%. In 5% of the cases, custody went to someone other than a parent. In instances in which fathers sought sole custody, mothers received sole custody in only 15% of the cases (Phear et al., 1983). These statistics may be a surprise to many. They are, however, consistent with findings in other states. A study of court records in Los Angeles County, California, in 1977 found that fathers who sought sole custody obtained it in 63% of the cases (up from a success rate of 37% in 1972) (Weitzman, 1985, p. 233). A nationwide survey of all reported appellate decisions in child custody cases in 1982 found that fathers obtained custody in 51% of the cases, up from an estimated 10% in 1980 (Atkinson, 1984). The high success rate of fathers does not by itself establish gender bias against women. Additional evidence, however, indicates that women may be less able to afford the lawyers and experts needed in contested custody cases (see "Family Law Overview") and that, in contested cases, different and stricter standards are applied to mothers. """

LekkoscPiwa 13y ago
These studies are underpinned by sexism, racism, represent xenophobia and people who conducted them surely have issues with relating themselves to the opposite sex. Now, try discussing that. Beceause this is what you'll get once you'll present a study showing men are better soldiers than women to a feminist. And nobody cares. Equality at the Army, period. Actually special treatment for women because apparently they need to run just 4 miles to get to the Marines when males have to run 6 miles. Because obviously the enemy will stop 2 miles short just to treat our female soldiers better than others. Or like this precious thing that a women in the uniform can't have be moving machine gun. It is too heavy for her for goodness sake. This is all about special treatment and not equality. So maybe that's how we (males) should start rolling as well. 50% cases children go to the fathers, period. If you don't agree you are a sexist xenophobic in need of a psychological treatment for aggression impulses and the whole study is a hate speech.
- rayiner 13y ago
  It's hard for me to respond to an argument you're apparently having with someone else.
  - LekkoscPiwa 13y ago
    Of course. It's impossible to respond when you have provided good logical evidence and get emotional instability and calling names in return. I just wanted you to got through the exercise to see that whatever feminists demand, whether it is logical or makes sense or not - they get. And if you try to respond in logical fashion, you get this, what I gave you. Just to prove a point. Females are more important to children than males. I agree 100%, you don't need to provide me with any evidence. That's common sense. The same way males are better soldiers than females. I agree 100%. You don't need to provide me with any evidence. That's common sense. But why we live in society where we apply logic to certain things (like divorces and who gets children as their result), and to other (i.e. female soldiers) we would rather gag logic in the name of the political correctness, is beyond me.