4 ms·

The NSA's job has been to spy on foreigners since the Cold War. I don't understand how the new revelations are some how a big surprise? Also moving your cloud

The NSA's job has been to spy on foreigners since the Cold War. I don't understand how the new revelations are some how a big surprise? Also moving your cloud hosting to an EU country is probably going to buy you exactly zero safety. The majority of the internet traffic in the world routes through the USA regardless or origin / destination.

moocowduckquack 13y ago
Also moving your cloud hosting to an EU country is probably going to buy you exactly zero safety. Economically it may have some effect though. A lot of this is sending a message as much as securing anything. edit - also, anyone serious who is switching from US servers over this issue at the moment will be unlikely to be only switching servers, it will most likely be just the first part of a general security upgrade.
fizz_and_buzz 13y ago
> The majority of the internet traffic in the world routes through the USA regardless or origin / destination. I was suspicious of your claim since this didn't line up with my experience of using traceroute. So, I don't think this is really true anymore; especially for Europe. Have a look at this infografic [1] by the NYtimes linked from this 2008 (!) article [2]. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/08/30/business/30pipes.web.html http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/08/30/business/30pipe... [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/business/30pipes.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/business/30pipes.html
scoot 13y ago
Foreign governments, yes. But the wholesale monitoring of the public at large (every last one of us) is what came as a bit of a revalation.
PeterisP 13y ago
I recall times when we in Europe perceived NSA to be working on behalf of us to protect against our common threats in China/Russia/Mideast/whatever - you know, being allies, NATO, common military operations, so on. Seeing them as the most powerful force hostile against us in the digital world is some shift in mindset, when coming from that history.
- res0nat0r 13y ago
  They aren't spying on you (if in fact you aren't plotting to kill Americans)...
  - visarga 13y ago
    How would they find that out without first spying on you?
    - res0nat0r 13y ago
      As general Alexander mentioned in the 60 Minutes interview, they may collect lots of data but don't examine it or bother to look until they have a warrant or need. Kind if like what you do with your logging collection service....
      - PeterisP 13y ago
        NSA is known to abuse their intel for USA commercial interests (the largest published example probably is Airbus vs Boeing). You don't have to fear them unless you're a terrorist. Or you're a member of a social organization with a somewhat similar name to a religious organization (Dr. Rahinah Ibrahim case, for example) in which case US authorities will treat your info as terrorist info. Or your partner criticizes US government (e.g. David Miranda case), in which case your communications apparently can be intercepted as well. Or your company competes with US companies. Or something else that I hadn't noticed... I mean "may collect lots of data until they have some need to use it" is evil enough to be perceived as a hostile enemy act.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    Prove it. "Trust us" is not verifiable.

moocowduckquack 13y ago

Also moving your cloud hosting to an EU country is probably going to buy you exactly zero safety. Economically it may have some effect though. A lot of this is sending a message as much as securing anything. edit - also, anyone serious who is switching from US servers over this issue at the moment will be unlikely to be only switching servers, it will most likely be just the first part of a general security upgrade.

fizz_and_buzz 13y ago

> The majority of the internet traffic in the world routes through the USA regardless or origin / destination. I was suspicious of your claim since this didn't line up with my experience of using traceroute. So, I don't think this is really true anymore; especially for Europe. Have a look at this infografic [1] by the NYtimes linked from this 2008 (!) article [2]. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/08/30/business/30pipes.web.html http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/08/30/business/30pipe... [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/business/30pipes.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/business/30pipes.html

scoot 13y ago

Foreign governments, yes. But the wholesale monitoring of the public at large (every last one of us) is what came as a bit of a revalation.

PeterisP 13y ago

I recall times when we in Europe perceived NSA to be working on behalf of us to protect against our common threats in China/Russia/Mideast/whatever - you know, being allies, NATO, common military operations, so on. Seeing them as the most powerful force hostile against us in the digital world is some shift in mindset, when coming from that history.

res0nat0r 13y ago
They aren't spying on you (if in fact you aren't plotting to kill Americans)...
- visarga 13y ago
  How would they find that out without first spying on you?
  - res0nat0r 13y ago
    As general Alexander mentioned in the 60 Minutes interview, they may collect lots of data but don't examine it or bother to look until they have a warrant or need. Kind if like what you do with your logging collection service....
    - PeterisP 13y ago
      NSA is known to abuse their intel for USA commercial interests (the largest published example probably is Airbus vs Boeing). You don't have to fear them unless you're a terrorist. Or you're a member of a social organization with a somewhat similar name to a religious organization (Dr. Rahinah Ibrahim case, for example) in which case US authorities will treat your info as terrorist info. Or your partner criticizes US government (e.g. David Miranda case), in which case your communications apparently can be intercepted as well. Or your company competes with US companies. Or something else that I hadn't noticed... I mean "may collect lots of data until they have some need to use it" is evil enough to be perceived as a hostile enemy act.
- malandrew 13y ago
  Prove it. "Trust us" is not verifiable.