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I've been looking/waiting for an article like this ever since news of the NSA spying was released (but haven't been looking particularly hard). All of what I've

by e28eta 13y ago

I've been looking/waiting for an article like this ever since news of the NSA spying was released (but haven't been looking particularly hard). All of what I've seen previously discussed whether the spying has been legal/appropriate to do to US Citizens, while I've always felt it has been a bad idea regardless of citizenship. I haven't really thought it through, but I sometimes wish that the international blowback does happen, and happens in a big way. I think the US government has betrayed the world's trust, and I would like to see repercussions. As a software engineer working in Silicon Valley for a company that sells software internationally, it would not be good for my industry. However, my country's morality compass seems to be broken, and I'd appreciate if the rest of the world helped us to get back on track.

tbastos 13y ago
As a foreigner, I appreciate your sensibility. I'm constantly under the impression that most americans would be fine with the NSA surveillance programs if they didn't target americans. That viewpoint is exactly what earned America so many enemies along the years. America doesn't need better intel or military, it needs better international policies. What good is it to be the richest country on Earth if you have a sick/stressed society that is constantly under threat, and with increasingly fewer civil liberties? Today, I don't think I would want to live in the US... and if you'd asked me 15 years ago I would have jumped at the opportunity.
- malandrew 13y ago
  Exactly. I myself have this secret fantasy that one day we'll realize that we'd buy 10x the security, by taking the 33 cents of every tax dollar we spend on defense and using it to help all the countries in the world that we want to like us. We can build a lot more goodwill by building nations than destroying them. If we're seen as the people that show up at your countries doorstep and improve your human condition until it's on par with most developed countries, then that would earn us a lot more security because we'd have popular global support. Which is going to be more impactful? 1) Don't mess with us or we will mess with you? or 2) If you mess with us, we'll show up and improve life for your own population, where they will clearly support kicking you out to let us in to help out. The former is the conclusion you come to if you view all the best possible outcome as the result of Pareto optimalities or the result of a Nash equilibrium. It's like "how to make friends and influence people" for nation states.

by e28eta 13y ago

tbastos 13y ago

As a foreigner, I appreciate your sensibility. I'm constantly under the impression that most americans would be fine with the NSA surveillance programs if they didn't target americans. That viewpoint is exactly what earned America so many enemies along the years. America doesn't need better intel or military, it needs better international policies. What good is it to be the richest country on Earth if you have a sick/stressed society that is constantly under threat, and with increasingly fewer civil liberties? Today, I don't think I would want to live in the US... and if you'd asked me 15 years ago I would have jumped at the opportunity.

malandrew 13y ago
Exactly. I myself have this secret fantasy that one day we'll realize that we'd buy 10x the security, by taking the 33 cents of every tax dollar we spend on defense and using it to help all the countries in the world that we want to like us. We can build a lot more goodwill by building nations than destroying them. If we're seen as the people that show up at your countries doorstep and improve your human condition until it's on par with most developed countries, then that would earn us a lot more security because we'd have popular global support. Which is going to be more impactful? 1) Don't mess with us or we will mess with you? or 2) If you mess with us, we'll show up and improve life for your own population, where they will clearly support kicking you out to let us in to help out. The former is the conclusion you come to if you view all the best possible outcome as the result of Pareto optimalities or the result of a Nash equilibrium. It's like "how to make friends and influence people" for nation states.