8 ms·

Jolla phones now available for sale in Europe

48 points by cromulent 13y ago

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
Zigurd 13y ago
The Verge's reviewer didn't like it. I have yet to get my hands on one. It is strongly a "global gestures" UI. Some people like that as a way of enforcing consistency. That will have some possibly confusing effects on Android apps running in Myriad's compatibility environment. Also, the last time I looked at Myriad's technology, they were using their own Java VM, which means, at least,some kind of Dalvik to Java bytecode converter for apps as they are installed, or an SDK plugin to produce "Myriad-VM-ready" apps. It looks pretty clean. It should appeal to the people who were buying Nokia's Harmattan and Meego devices. If Jolla can pick up a majority of the Qt apps that had been developed for those platforms and grow that developer community, they may have a chance. It will take at least a year, and probably some more hardware to tell where Jolla is going and if it will be successful. There are several dimensions to measure that success: Can Jolla pick up many of the distribution channels, and their customers, in Europe that previously favored Nokia? Can they penetrate the China market, as they appear to be aiming to do?
- contextual 13y ago
  The Jolla UI looks and behaves similar to the Blackberry 10 OS, which is a good thing, and an improvement on Android and iOS. I have a Blackberry Z30[1] and I don't think I could go back to the "old way" of using a smartphone. BB 10 feels like a true smartphone experience, as subjective as that is. [1] http://ca.blackberry.com/smartphones/blackberry-z30.html http://ca.blackberry.com/smartphones/blackberry-z30.html
  - Pxtl 13y ago
    Which means it could face the one of the same challenges as BB10 - these global gestures are very demo-unit-unfriendly. You go to a store and pick up a BB10 device and you're freaking lost with no visible buttons or UI to use. A non-discoverable interface on a device this late to the party is not going to be good for market-share.
    - contextual 13y ago
      Fascinating insight. Reminds me of the Pepsi Challenge. In the famous Pepsi vs Coke taste tests[1], people picked Pepsi due to it's favorable first impression - it had a sweeter taste. In reality, most people prefer a less sweet beverage over the course of an entire can. Maybe BlackBerry should attack the problem the same way Coke did, by conducting a (longer-term) OS interface challenge. [1]http://www.slate.com/articles/business/rivalries/2013/08/pepsi_paradox_why_people_prefer_coke_even_though_pepsi_wins_in_taste_tests.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/rivalries/2013/08/pep...
      - Pxtl 13y ago
        Just making sure that cellphone vendors use devices properly imaged with a demo-oriented environment that returns to tutorial mode every time it idles would be a big help.
    - pavlov 13y ago
      I remember that was my first experience with the Nokia N9 (spiritual and technical predecessor of the Jolla phone). At the store, I picked it up, turned it around a few times to confirm that there are indeed no buttons, then tried tapping the screen all over but it stubbornly displayed only a screensaver. Later someone told me that I was supposed to rapidly tap twice in one place (like a double-click on the mouse) to get to the home screen. Nothing in the unit's physical design or software suggested this.
      - shmerl 13y ago
        The point is, once you figure out what to do, you really appreciate the comfort of such interface.
    - shmerl 13y ago
      It is pretty discoverable through a tutorial which is offered for all new users. If you skip it - things can be initially harder.
      - 13y ago
- bluekitten 13y ago
  >Also, the last time I looked at Myriad's technology, they were using their own Java VM, which means, at least,some kind of Dalvik to Java bytecode converter for apps as they are installed, or an SDK plugin to produce "Myriad-VM-ready" apps. Does that mean it's a fork of Android and thus no Android OEM(that ships the Play Store) can make Jolla phones unless they stop shipping Android phones and get out of the Open Handset Alliance? http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-...
- alecsmart1 13y ago
  For anyone finding the verge review- http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/11/29/5156446/jolla-smartphone-hands-on-preview http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/11/29/5156446/jolla-smartpho...
  - vanderZwan 13y ago
    > Nonetheless, that group is small whereas the software evolution required is large. It's also open source and I'm sure they have a lot of goodwill within the community given their history, so that might alleviate the problem somewhat.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
shmerl 13y ago
I'll have to wait until they'll release US networks compatible version. For those who missed it, there is a community Q&A about Jolla and Sailfish here: http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/JollaFAQ/latest http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/JollaFAQ/latest
AndrewDucker 13y ago
I'm intrigued by Jolla, if not enthused by it. I'm not sure what it gives me that Android doesn't - can anyone enlighten me?
- shmerl 13y ago
  It depends on what you are interested in. Distinctive features: 1. It has strong focus on real multitasking (performance and design wise). Both Android and iOS are weak on that and prefer to avoid multitasking in order to gain battery life advantage. 2. It has innovative approach to UI, not being stuck in ideas developed a while ago, which hold Android and iOS back from advancing. 3. It's DRM free and aims to be privacy respecting unlike competition. It gives control over the system to the user and doesn't attempt to lock things up and make it hard to modify. 4. For those who care (developers probably more than others) - it's real glibc based Linux which gives synergy with the global Linux community. Android while using the Linux kernel is a completley different beast from libc and middleware up to the top of the stack. Mer/Sailfish on the other hand uses glibc, Wayland and other conventional Linux middleware and tools. 5. They plan to allow better participation of community in the development. Right now things aren't so open though, except the open parts Sailfish is based on (Mer Core and Nemo Mobile which are openly developed open source projects). 6. It's a startup and not some monstrous stonewalling corp with no face. So you often can communicate with Jolla directly (they even have official presence in Diaspora: https://joindiaspora.com/u/jolla https://joindiaspora.com/u/jolla) and they are interested in the community. For more details see: * https://sailfishos.org/about.html https://sailfishos.org/about.html * https://sailfishos.org/design.html https://sailfishos.org/design.html * https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Main_Page https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Main_Page * https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo
  - AndrewDucker 13y ago
    Thank you, that's really useful.
- pekk 13y ago
  What do you think Jolla is?
DorianMarie 13y ago
It says €399.00, but then €414.00 for tax and shipping in Europe. I changed from "Ah, same as a Nexus 5" to "Wow, that's two Nexus 4!".
- stefantalpalaru 13y ago
  €399 including tax + €15 shipping = €414 final price
emiljbs 13y ago
I'll probably buy a Jolla. I'm just so tired of the mainstream phone manufacturers like Sony and Samsung, it just feels like they don't care about me as a user. I've had way too many annoying problems with my Galaxy S2 because of the pre-installed apps, locked-in OS and design flaws.
- dallagi 13y ago
  I had the same problems with my previous Motorola defy. Then I switched to BlackBerry 10 and I'm happy with that. I'll try Jolla for sure as soon as possible, but I suggest you trying the blackberry z10 (that is priced at ~250E now) if you are interested in something different and more polished. Just my 2 cents
- anoncow 13y ago
  >Locked-in OS I'll agree on that point. Have to root your phone using closed-source hacks from questionable sources, just so you can use your phone the way you want to, makes me a little sad. I believe that Samsung and others do this to decrease support costs and perhaps for DRM/piracy reasons. It still is a shitty business decision.
kintamanimatt 13y ago
The marketing and sales copy is horrendous. > Jolla is powered by Sailfish OS, a truly open and distinct mobile operating system. Navigate effortlessly with the gesture-based user interface and load the phone with top Android™ apps. That's pretty much it. Bland, uncompelling, and unemotional. It's a poorly positioned phone that isn't cool -- but it could be with decent marketing and a great sales pitch. Way back when, if Apple had marketed the iPhone with this pitch, there'd be no iPhone today. There's a lesson here: prospects don't know or care about you unless you make them. I have no idea who these people are, why I should care about them, or why this product will make me feel good or alleviate some pain in some way.
- shmerl 13y ago
  Marketing can be very expensive, but it's useful as well. Jolla probably prioritized development and production vs investing millions in marketing. They have limited resources and had to make choices and the first priority was a functional product. It affected many areas besides marketing (for example lacking community infrastructure, no public bug tracker and so on). Hopefully they'll gradually catch up in these aspects, but so far they seem to have enough of demand for their level of production. Don't compare them to Apple - they aren't huge company which pours millions into marketing from the start and expects some crazy numbers in sales in return right away. They aren't Nokia either - they are a small startup.
  - kintamanimatt 13y ago
    That's the build-it-and-they-will-come mentality! (It almost never works too!) Great marketing is as important (possibly moreso) than a great product. It's probably easier to make a mediocre product a success with great marketing than to make a great product a success with ho-hum marketing. There's no point in having a great product that nobody knows about or worse, cares about. Product development is like eating out: if you can't afford the marketing, you can't afford the product development. Paying for one and not the other is a great way to throw away the investment. It's just such a rookie mistake and completely unavoidable.
    - 13y ago
claudius 13y ago
I think I’ll wait for a true ‘high-end’ phone from them in the future. I wouldn’t mind paying 800 € for a phone, but I do expect it to run for a few years and really outperform my current N9. Hopefully by the time they get that to any market, they will also have fixed most of the bugs in Sailfish OS.
ClashTheBunny 13y ago
I think that one of the revolutionary things on this is the I2C and power connectors available under the cover. It's the start of things becoming modularized. You want IRDA, get the back cover that adds it. You want what's next after NFC? Add it. You want a hardware slide out keyboard? Add it. You want an eInk back like the Yotta phone? Add it. You want a full USB port? Add it. All of those things can be done over i2c. Random List of i2c components: http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/99160-List-of-I2C-devices http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/99160-List-of-I2C-... Spark Fun: https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=i2c&what=products https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=i2c&what=produc...

48 points by cromulent 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

The Verge's reviewer didn't like it. I have yet to get my hands on one. It is strongly a "global gestures" UI. Some people like that as a way of enforcing consistency. That will have some possibly confusing effects on Android apps running in Myriad's compatibility environment. Also, the last time I looked at Myriad's technology, they were using their own Java VM, which means, at least,some kind of Dalvik to Java bytecode converter for apps as they are installed, or an SDK plugin to produce "Myriad-VM-ready" apps. It looks pretty clean. It should appeal to the people who were buying Nokia's Harmattan and Meego devices. If Jolla can pick up a majority of the Qt apps that had been developed for those platforms and grow that developer community, they may have a chance. It will take at least a year, and probably some more hardware to tell where Jolla is going and if it will be successful. There are several dimensions to measure that success: Can Jolla pick up many of the distribution channels, and their customers, in Europe that previously favored Nokia? Can they penetrate the China market, as they appear to be aiming to do?

contextual 13y ago
The Jolla UI looks and behaves similar to the Blackberry 10 OS, which is a good thing, and an improvement on Android and iOS. I have a Blackberry Z30[1] and I don't think I could go back to the "old way" of using a smartphone. BB 10 feels like a true smartphone experience, as subjective as that is. [1] http://ca.blackberry.com/smartphones/blackberry-z30.html http://ca.blackberry.com/smartphones/blackberry-z30.html
- Pxtl 13y ago
  Which means it could face the one of the same challenges as BB10 - these global gestures are very demo-unit-unfriendly. You go to a store and pick up a BB10 device and you're freaking lost with no visible buttons or UI to use. A non-discoverable interface on a device this late to the party is not going to be good for market-share.
  - contextual 13y ago
    Fascinating insight. Reminds me of the Pepsi Challenge. In the famous Pepsi vs Coke taste tests[1], people picked Pepsi due to it's favorable first impression - it had a sweeter taste. In reality, most people prefer a less sweet beverage over the course of an entire can. Maybe BlackBerry should attack the problem the same way Coke did, by conducting a (longer-term) OS interface challenge. [1]http://www.slate.com/articles/business/rivalries/2013/08/pepsi_paradox_why_people_prefer_coke_even_though_pepsi_wins_in_taste_tests.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/rivalries/2013/08/pep...
    - Pxtl 13y ago
      Just making sure that cellphone vendors use devices properly imaged with a demo-oriented environment that returns to tutorial mode every time it idles would be a big help.
  - pavlov 13y ago
    I remember that was my first experience with the Nokia N9 (spiritual and technical predecessor of the Jolla phone). At the store, I picked it up, turned it around a few times to confirm that there are indeed no buttons, then tried tapping the screen all over but it stubbornly displayed only a screensaver. Later someone told me that I was supposed to rapidly tap twice in one place (like a double-click on the mouse) to get to the home screen. Nothing in the unit's physical design or software suggested this.
    - shmerl 13y ago
      The point is, once you figure out what to do, you really appreciate the comfort of such interface.
  - shmerl 13y ago
    It is pretty discoverable through a tutorial which is offered for all new users. If you skip it - things can be initially harder.
    - 13y ago
bluekitten 13y ago
>Also, the last time I looked at Myriad's technology, they were using their own Java VM, which means, at least,some kind of Dalvik to Java bytecode converter for apps as they are installed, or an SDK plugin to produce "Myriad-VM-ready" apps. Does that mean it's a fork of Android and thus no Android OEM(that ships the Play Store) can make Jolla phones unless they stop shipping Android phones and get out of the Open Handset Alliance? http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-...
alecsmart1 13y ago
For anyone finding the verge review- http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/11/29/5156446/jolla-smartphone-hands-on-preview http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/11/29/5156446/jolla-smartpho...
- vanderZwan 13y ago
  > Nonetheless, that group is small whereas the software evolution required is large. It's also open source and I'm sure they have a lot of goodwill within the community given their history, so that might alleviate the problem somewhat.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

shmerl 13y ago

I'll have to wait until they'll release US networks compatible version. For those who missed it, there is a community Q&A about Jolla and Sailfish here: http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/JollaFAQ/latest http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/JollaFAQ/latest

AndrewDucker 13y ago

I'm intrigued by Jolla, if not enthused by it. I'm not sure what it gives me that Android doesn't - can anyone enlighten me?

shmerl 13y ago
It depends on what you are interested in. Distinctive features: 1. It has strong focus on real multitasking (performance and design wise). Both Android and iOS are weak on that and prefer to avoid multitasking in order to gain battery life advantage. 2. It has innovative approach to UI, not being stuck in ideas developed a while ago, which hold Android and iOS back from advancing. 3. It's DRM free and aims to be privacy respecting unlike competition. It gives control over the system to the user and doesn't attempt to lock things up and make it hard to modify. 4. For those who care (developers probably more than others) - it's real glibc based Linux which gives synergy with the global Linux community. Android while using the Linux kernel is a completley different beast from libc and middleware up to the top of the stack. Mer/Sailfish on the other hand uses glibc, Wayland and other conventional Linux middleware and tools. 5. They plan to allow better participation of community in the development. Right now things aren't so open though, except the open parts Sailfish is based on (Mer Core and Nemo Mobile which are openly developed open source projects). 6. It's a startup and not some monstrous stonewalling corp with no face. So you often can communicate with Jolla directly (they even have official presence in Diaspora: https://joindiaspora.com/u/jolla https://joindiaspora.com/u/jolla) and they are interested in the community. For more details see: * https://sailfishos.org/about.html https://sailfishos.org/about.html * https://sailfishos.org/design.html https://sailfishos.org/design.html * https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Main_Page https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Main_Page * https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo
- AndrewDucker 13y ago
  Thank you, that's really useful.
pekk 13y ago
What do you think Jolla is?

DorianMarie 13y ago

It says €399.00, but then €414.00 for tax and shipping in Europe. I changed from "Ah, same as a Nexus 5" to "Wow, that's two Nexus 4!".

stefantalpalaru 13y ago
€399 including tax + €15 shipping = €414 final price

emiljbs 13y ago

I'll probably buy a Jolla. I'm just so tired of the mainstream phone manufacturers like Sony and Samsung, it just feels like they don't care about me as a user. I've had way too many annoying problems with my Galaxy S2 because of the pre-installed apps, locked-in OS and design flaws.

dallagi 13y ago
I had the same problems with my previous Motorola defy. Then I switched to BlackBerry 10 and I'm happy with that. I'll try Jolla for sure as soon as possible, but I suggest you trying the blackberry z10 (that is priced at ~250E now) if you are interested in something different and more polished. Just my 2 cents
anoncow 13y ago
>Locked-in OS I'll agree on that point. Have to root your phone using closed-source hacks from questionable sources, just so you can use your phone the way you want to, makes me a little sad. I believe that Samsung and others do this to decrease support costs and perhaps for DRM/piracy reasons. It still is a shitty business decision.

kintamanimatt 13y ago

The marketing and sales copy is horrendous. > Jolla is powered by Sailfish OS, a truly open and distinct mobile operating system. Navigate effortlessly with the gesture-based user interface and load the phone with top Android™ apps. That's pretty much it. Bland, uncompelling, and unemotional. It's a poorly positioned phone that isn't cool -- but it could be with decent marketing and a great sales pitch. Way back when, if Apple had marketed the iPhone with this pitch, there'd be no iPhone today. There's a lesson here: prospects don't know or care about you unless you make them. I have no idea who these people are, why I should care about them, or why this product will make me feel good or alleviate some pain in some way.

shmerl 13y ago
Marketing can be very expensive, but it's useful as well. Jolla probably prioritized development and production vs investing millions in marketing. They have limited resources and had to make choices and the first priority was a functional product. It affected many areas besides marketing (for example lacking community infrastructure, no public bug tracker and so on). Hopefully they'll gradually catch up in these aspects, but so far they seem to have enough of demand for their level of production. Don't compare them to Apple - they aren't huge company which pours millions into marketing from the start and expects some crazy numbers in sales in return right away. They aren't Nokia either - they are a small startup.
- kintamanimatt 13y ago
  That's the build-it-and-they-will-come mentality! (It almost never works too!) Great marketing is as important (possibly moreso) than a great product. It's probably easier to make a mediocre product a success with great marketing than to make a great product a success with ho-hum marketing. There's no point in having a great product that nobody knows about or worse, cares about. Product development is like eating out: if you can't afford the marketing, you can't afford the product development. Paying for one and not the other is a great way to throw away the investment. It's just such a rookie mistake and completely unavoidable.
  - 13y ago

claudius 13y ago

I think I’ll wait for a true ‘high-end’ phone from them in the future. I wouldn’t mind paying 800 € for a phone, but I do expect it to run for a few years and really outperform my current N9. Hopefully by the time they get that to any market, they will also have fixed most of the bugs in Sailfish OS.

ClashTheBunny 13y ago

I think that one of the revolutionary things on this is the I2C and power connectors available under the cover. It's the start of things becoming modularized. You want IRDA, get the back cover that adds it. You want what's next after NFC? Add it. You want a hardware slide out keyboard? Add it. You want an eInk back like the Yotta phone? Add it. You want a full USB port? Add it. All of those things can be done over i2c. Random List of i2c components: http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/99160-List-of-I2C-devices http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php/99160-List-of-I2C-... Spark Fun: https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=i2c&what=products https://www.sparkfun.com/search/results?term=i2c&what=produc...