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I answered a comment re threading, not different multi process implementations. (All the popular scripting languages have bad threading support and try to do e

by berntb 13y ago

I answered a comment re threading, not different multi process implementations. (All the popular scripting languages have bad threading support and try to do everything with multiple processes, afaik. It should be possible to add good support, but I guess it isn't really worth it?)

nailer 13y ago
> I answered a comment re threading, not different multi process implementations. I'd argue single process multiple threads, vs multiple process single thread, vs not blocking, are different solutions to the same problem: how do I take advantage of multiple cores? Saying other solutions don't apply, despite solving the problem, is a bit arbitrary.
- Mithaldu 13y ago
  As long as multi-processes can't share variables, nevermind complex data structures made of variables, they don't apply to the problem multi-threading solves.
  - nailer 13y ago
    shrug The queue module takes complex data structures, provides them to processes, which when finished doing whatever they do, send them back to other queues and in turn more processes. It works, complex data structures are being shared. There's no nightmarish locking issues. Not sure what else you want. Are you entirely sure you're not discounting the solution because It's Not What Java Does?
    - Mithaldu 13y ago
      I'm sorry if that wasn't clear, sharing doesn't only mean "making the data available" but also means high performance and direct access. Quite simply though: If you can't imagine different use profiles that make certain multi-processing paradigms better suited than others, then you shouldn't be having this discussion and should be getting more experience outside of what you're doing right now.
      - nailer 13y ago
        I'm just pointing what's solved the problem for me, and how it can be useful for others. I'm aware there's a performance overhead. > If you can't imagine different use profiles that make certain multi-processing paradigms better suited than others, then you shouldn't be having this discussion and should be getting more experience Conversely, there's also a huge gain in architectural simplicity which I hope you are aware of. Though you have neither acknowledged nor disproven that yet - based on your last comment, I think this is because you are an asshole. That's not an ad hominem attack, but rather an assessment of your personality after conversing with you here. I have tried discussing with you technically, and not acknowledging other's points, then responding with "if you can't imagine my points, I can't tell you" is not how a rational, polite adult with a technical viewpoint converses with others.
        Mithaldu 13y ago
        I'm not saying i can't tell you, i'm saying i don't have the patience. I could throw the book at you and the library besides, but you showed quite clearly that you lack the experience to know which problems multi-threading solves. This means that both of our time is better used if you went and got the experience. I don't want you to shut up, i want you to go and learn something. On the other hand, yes, i am an asshole. That's why i'll suggest you try and build a minecraft clone with a multi-process/single-thread solution PS: > Conversely, there's also a huge gain in architectural simplicity which I hope you are aware of. Though you have neither acknowledged nor disproven that yet I absolutely said so. I expressed quite clearly that different multi-processing solutions apply to different categories of problems, which of course means that there are problems which simple, plain multi-process solutions excel at, for example webservers.
        nailer 13y ago
        By no means would I try and build a high bandwidth graphics pipeline that runs between processes. That's a very specific problem requiring a very specific solution. However it wouldn't be correct to abandon multiple process single thread for the (much more common, particularly on HN) situation of a web app that's running on a server with multiple logical cores in non-evented programming language. > I expressed quite clearly that different multi-processing solutions apply to different categories of problems, which of course means that there are problems which simple, plain multi-process solutions excel at, for example webservers. When? Please quote.

by berntb 13y ago

nailer 13y ago

> I answered a comment re threading, not different multi process implementations. I'd argue single process multiple threads, vs multiple process single thread, vs not blocking, are different solutions to the same problem: how do I take advantage of multiple cores? Saying other solutions don't apply, despite solving the problem, is a bit arbitrary.

Mithaldu 13y ago
As long as multi-processes can't share variables, nevermind complex data structures made of variables, they don't apply to the problem multi-threading solves.
- nailer 13y ago
  shrug The queue module takes complex data structures, provides them to processes, which when finished doing whatever they do, send them back to other queues and in turn more processes. It works, complex data structures are being shared. There's no nightmarish locking issues. Not sure what else you want. Are you entirely sure you're not discounting the solution because It's Not What Java Does?
  - Mithaldu 13y ago
    I'm sorry if that wasn't clear, sharing doesn't only mean "making the data available" but also means high performance and direct access. Quite simply though: If you can't imagine different use profiles that make certain multi-processing paradigms better suited than others, then you shouldn't be having this discussion and should be getting more experience outside of what you're doing right now.
    - nailer 13y ago
      I'm just pointing what's solved the problem for me, and how it can be useful for others. I'm aware there's a performance overhead. > If you can't imagine different use profiles that make certain multi-processing paradigms better suited than others, then you shouldn't be having this discussion and should be getting more experience Conversely, there's also a huge gain in architectural simplicity which I hope you are aware of. Though you have neither acknowledged nor disproven that yet - based on your last comment, I think this is because you are an asshole. That's not an ad hominem attack, but rather an assessment of your personality after conversing with you here. I have tried discussing with you technically, and not acknowledging other's points, then responding with "if you can't imagine my points, I can't tell you" is not how a rational, polite adult with a technical viewpoint converses with others.
      - Mithaldu 13y ago
        I'm not saying i can't tell you, i'm saying i don't have the patience. I could throw the book at you and the library besides, but you showed quite clearly that you lack the experience to know which problems multi-threading solves. This means that both of our time is better used if you went and got the experience. I don't want you to shut up, i want you to go and learn something. On the other hand, yes, i am an asshole. That's why i'll suggest you try and build a minecraft clone with a multi-process/single-thread solution PS: > Conversely, there's also a huge gain in architectural simplicity which I hope you are aware of. Though you have neither acknowledged nor disproven that yet I absolutely said so. I expressed quite clearly that different multi-processing solutions apply to different categories of problems, which of course means that there are problems which simple, plain multi-process solutions excel at, for example webservers.
        nailer 13y ago
        By no means would I try and build a high bandwidth graphics pipeline that runs between processes. That's a very specific problem requiring a very specific solution. However it wouldn't be correct to abandon multiple process single thread for the (much more common, particularly on HN) situation of a web app that's running on a server with multiple logical cores in non-evented programming language. > I expressed quite clearly that different multi-processing solutions apply to different categories of problems, which of course means that there are problems which simple, plain multi-process solutions excel at, for example webservers. When? Please quote.