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You really prefer Python threading to anything?! You haven't found any of the major Perl web frameworks? You haven't seen Moose for OO? perlbrew? (Don't get me

by berntb 13y ago

You really prefer Python threading to anything?! You haven't found any of the major Perl web frameworks? You haven't seen Moose for OO? perlbrew? (Don't get me started on list comprehension, extra stuff to learn because Python lack real maps with real lambdas.) And so on... Do you always have opinions on stuff you have no clue about?! Start with getting the Modern Perl book and read it (free pdf). Ask (/search) on Perlmonks.

lmm 13y ago
> You really prefer Python threading to anything?! Sure. When I just want "run this task in the background, I don't particularly care about throughput but don't block entirely". There's a niche where a proper task queue is too heavy and shared variables are a perfectly adequate communication mechanism. > Don't get me started on list comprehension, extra stuff to learn because Python lack real maps with real lambdas. They're a nicer abstraction for many purposes. Look at their Haskell origin, or Scala for/yield.
- berntb 13y ago
  For stuff so trivial that even the GIL is no problem, most any utility should work... (You don't seem to know that Perls are usually not compiled with threading support?) It just isn't interesting to talk about. I argued that list comprehension's use cases are generally solved better with "real" lambdas + map (==> less to learn). To note that most every feature have some use case they are extra good for is not relevant. But again -- why do you discuss subjects you obviously don't know? Ask instead.
  - kbenson 13y ago
    You don't seem to know that Perls are usually not compiled with threading support? I've heard this a few times now, and find it interesting. I guess people that compile their own do it without threading support, but I would guess the majority of Perl interpreters out there were bundled from some third party (usually the distro), and those almost always have threading enabled. Also, that's a good thing. I've made quite heavy use of threads over the years and find Perl's abstraction of OS threads is actually quite nice to use, as long as you play to their strengths. I.e. pre-create your threads, and thread them like pthreads with easier IPC. If you want "green" threads, use any of the numerous packages that provide it.
nailer 13y ago
> You really prefer Python threading to anything?! The Python 'process' and 'queue' modules rock (yes, multiple single threaded processes still counts as multithreading). I've had apps on the front page of HN / Smashing Mag using them, happily taking advantage of a multicore server. I swear half the people who bitch about the GIL have never used either of these modules (not you, people in general).
- berntb 13y ago
  I answered a comment re threading, not different multi process implementations. (All the popular scripting languages have bad threading support and try to do everything with multiple processes, afaik. It should be possible to add good support, but I guess it isn't really worth it?)
  - nailer 13y ago
    > I answered a comment re threading, not different multi process implementations. I'd argue single process multiple threads, vs multiple process single thread, vs not blocking, are different solutions to the same problem: how do I take advantage of multiple cores? Saying other solutions don't apply, despite solving the problem, is a bit arbitrary.
    - Mithaldu 13y ago
      As long as multi-processes can't share variables, nevermind complex data structures made of variables, they don't apply to the problem multi-threading solves.
      - nailer 13y ago
        shrug The queue module takes complex data structures, provides them to processes, which when finished doing whatever they do, send them back to other queues and in turn more processes. It works, complex data structures are being shared. There's no nightmarish locking issues. Not sure what else you want. Are you entirely sure you're not discounting the solution because It's Not What Java Does?

by berntb 13y ago

lmm 13y ago

> You really prefer Python threading to anything?! Sure. When I just want "run this task in the background, I don't particularly care about throughput but don't block entirely". There's a niche where a proper task queue is too heavy and shared variables are a perfectly adequate communication mechanism. > Don't get me started on list comprehension, extra stuff to learn because Python lack real maps with real lambdas. They're a nicer abstraction for many purposes. Look at their Haskell origin, or Scala for/yield.

berntb 13y ago
For stuff so trivial that even the GIL is no problem, most any utility should work... (You don't seem to know that Perls are usually not compiled with threading support?) It just isn't interesting to talk about. I argued that list comprehension's use cases are generally solved better with "real" lambdas + map (==> less to learn). To note that most every feature have some use case they are extra good for is not relevant. But again -- why do you discuss subjects you obviously don't know? Ask instead.
- kbenson 13y ago
  You don't seem to know that Perls are usually not compiled with threading support? I've heard this a few times now, and find it interesting. I guess people that compile their own do it without threading support, but I would guess the majority of Perl interpreters out there were bundled from some third party (usually the distro), and those almost always have threading enabled. Also, that's a good thing. I've made quite heavy use of threads over the years and find Perl's abstraction of OS threads is actually quite nice to use, as long as you play to their strengths. I.e. pre-create your threads, and thread them like pthreads with easier IPC. If you want "green" threads, use any of the numerous packages that provide it.

nailer 13y ago

> You really prefer Python threading to anything?! The Python 'process' and 'queue' modules rock (yes, multiple single threaded processes still counts as multithreading). I've had apps on the front page of HN / Smashing Mag using them, happily taking advantage of a multicore server. I swear half the people who bitch about the GIL have never used either of these modules (not you, people in general).

berntb 13y ago
I answered a comment re threading, not different multi process implementations. (All the popular scripting languages have bad threading support and try to do everything with multiple processes, afaik. It should be possible to add good support, but I guess it isn't really worth it?)
- nailer 13y ago
  > I answered a comment re threading, not different multi process implementations. I'd argue single process multiple threads, vs multiple process single thread, vs not blocking, are different solutions to the same problem: how do I take advantage of multiple cores? Saying other solutions don't apply, despite solving the problem, is a bit arbitrary.
  - Mithaldu 13y ago
    As long as multi-processes can't share variables, nevermind complex data structures made of variables, they don't apply to the problem multi-threading solves.
    - nailer 13y ago
      shrug The queue module takes complex data structures, provides them to processes, which when finished doing whatever they do, send them back to other queues and in turn more processes. It works, complex data structures are being shared. There's no nightmarish locking issues. Not sure what else you want. Are you entirely sure you're not discounting the solution because It's Not What Java Does?