3 ms·

I only know developers using Windows. Does that cancels your argument?

by sker 17y ago

drawkbox 17y ago
Are they using it for anything other than visual studio? It was a boisterous claim, but there is a movement. Two things I think are causing it... 1) I think though something major happened with the move to intel chips and a nix backend to OSX. Dropping PowerPC and the old Mac OS is something Microsoft couldn't do and now Windows is stuck. 2) Also major market changes that push it that direction. - iPhone/Touch device and market - Dynamic languages like python + ruby and rails/django web frameworks associated with them - XBOX 360 caused people who were windows PC gamers to go console, making the main reason to buy a PC in the past (games) largely moot. - New multi-platform game engines like Unity3D and now that Mac is Intel you can develop for both easily. (unity3d is what initially made me make the switch) - The cloud computing paradigm (yes it is buzz but real) is pretty much not windows based, it pushes cheap nix OSes and a nix based OS as your base is much better. - Distributed source control such as git that weren't and aren't very Windows friendly - Finally good systems, right click, and killer machines (one dude I know has a 30 inch Mac screen and a 32GB 8 processor Pro, it is a monster). These things look like giant iPods now rather than colored beads. - OpenGL is resurging with Khronos support (ES for mobile and all associated libraries) Every developer that I know that has gone that direction has not come back, typically these are talented developers as well and long time windows people (myself included, C++ MFC, MCSD C++, MCSD.NET, .net developer for 8 years, did one of the first public .net sites with Microsoft for a large CPG packaging goods company, game developer on windows) There are more reasons but I see the change, do you? The fact that you can run lots of great tools even Windows within parallels or bootcamp also added to the move. Once you go Mac you never go... Windows will still be needed for development for some time, but all new, fun and multi-platform development it is not required anymore. That being said I have two monster machines, Vista 64bit PC and an iMac and I need and use them both. I can tell you which one is more fun to work on though...
- jonny_noog 17y ago
  I recently experienced some hardware unpleasantness and have just upgraded my main desktop. I've run Windows on my DIY custom built desktops for about the last ten years (much of that time has been using XP). What have I just bought to replace my dead desktop? A Mac Pro. I won't be going back. As a counterpoint, I have a friend who's done .Net based web development for some years. I couldn't convince him to dump it and join me in open source land, but he is just starting to get into .Net MVC. He has purchased a new high end Dell laptop that he will run Windows 7 on and this will be his main machine. He won't be moving from Windows any time soon, likely never. He says he's invested too much time in .Net. It's what he's comfortable with and that pretty much trumps anything else for him.
- vetinari 17y ago
  To provide counterpoint to your "Once you go Mac you never go...", I did exactly that last month. My previous computer was PB12. Yes, it is dated, but until unibody MBP13 introduction Apple didn't have any other model to replace it. Well, they still don't have anything able to replace it. MBP13 has shiny display, non-replaceable battery etc. Combined with unavailability of next OSX release for PPC, I had to choose what's next. So I got an Thinkpad, that has proper display instead of mirror, easily replaceable batteries and few other perks (you can put a second battery into DVD-RW bay, and it has built-in WWAN card with great antena, oh and the keyboard rules, yay!). Regarding Unix-yness, you can run Linux of your choice either natively or in vmware (I run mine in vmware), and I'm satisfied. I don't care for iLife (I used just iTunes anyway; winamp is OK replacement) or iWork. Things that I do care for are equally well done on Windows and OSX.
- fatdog789 17y ago
  MS didn't make the wrong processor choice to begin with; it was never stuck, so it didn't need to make that change. Game consoles have been around as long as, if not longer than, personal computers. For the past 10 years straight, the top selling games have been...computer games, like WoW and the Sims (and Myst, before them). Distributed source control is not the end all of programming. At best, it's a niche. Real companies use commercial source control systems. Name one major game coming out next year that uses OpenGL. PS3 games don't count. Can't think of one, can you? BTW, last month, Windows Vista shipped more copies than OSX sold in its entire decade-long run. So...Windows is not likely to become irrelevant soon. As for fun...Clicking the pretty buttons to close windows may amuse folks of a simpler persuasion, but I find it more enjoyable to play actual games on my computer.
  - drawkbox 17y ago
    WoW and the Sims 3 both use OpenGL based rendering engines (actually dual OpenGL and DirectX). They are multi-platform (Blizzard is smart) and run on Mac and PC. Almost all game engines except valve use this approach. This makes porting to PS3, Wii and other OpenGL like toolkits easy. XBOX360 + PC are DirectX based and PC/Mac/Wii/PS3 are OpenGL based. The highest selling games usually target both types. I was just stating due to the recent consoles there is largely not a reason to get a PC solely for gaming as much as there always was. I personally am a PC gamer but I also develop games and most new stuff is multi-platform.

I only know developers using Windows. Does that cancels your argument?

by sker 17y ago

I only know developers using Windows. Does that cancels your argument?

Are they using it for anything other than visual studio? It was a boisterous claim, but there is a movement. Two things I think are causing it... 1) I think though something major happened with the move to intel chips and a nix backend to OSX. Dropping PowerPC and the old Mac OS is something Microsoft couldn't do and now Windows is stuck. 2) Also major market changes that push it that direction. - iPhone/Touch device and market - Dynamic languages like python + ruby and rails/django web frameworks associated with them - XBOX 360 caused people who were windows PC gamers to go console, making the main reason to buy a PC in the past (games) largely moot. - New multi-platform game engines like Unity3D and now that Mac is Intel you can develop for both easily. (unity3d is what initially made me make the switch) - The cloud computing paradigm (yes it is buzz but real) is pretty much not windows based, it pushes cheap nix OSes and a nix based OS as your base is much better. - Distributed source control such as git that weren't and aren't very Windows friendly - Finally good systems, right click, and killer machines (one dude I know has a 30 inch Mac screen and a 32GB 8 processor Pro, it is a monster). These things look like giant iPods now rather than colored beads. - OpenGL is resurging with Khronos support (ES for mobile and all associated libraries) Every developer that I know that has gone that direction has not come back, typically these are talented developers as well and long time windows people (myself included, C++ MFC, MCSD C++, MCSD.NET, .net developer for 8 years, did one of the first public .net sites with Microsoft for a large CPG packaging goods company, game developer on windows) There are more reasons but I see the change, do you? The fact that you can run lots of great tools even Windows within parallels or bootcamp also added to the move. Once you go Mac you never go... Windows will still be needed for development for some time, but all new, fun and multi-platform development it is not required anymore. That being said I have two monster machines, Vista 64bit PC and an iMac and I need and use them both. I can tell you which one is more fun to work on though...

jonny_noog 17y ago
I recently experienced some hardware unpleasantness and have just upgraded my main desktop. I've run Windows on my DIY custom built desktops for about the last ten years (much of that time has been using XP). What have I just bought to replace my dead desktop? A Mac Pro. I won't be going back. As a counterpoint, I have a friend who's done .Net based web development for some years. I couldn't convince him to dump it and join me in open source land, but he is just starting to get into .Net MVC. He has purchased a new high end Dell laptop that he will run Windows 7 on and this will be his main machine. He won't be moving from Windows any time soon, likely never. He says he's invested too much time in .Net. It's what he's comfortable with and that pretty much trumps anything else for him.
vetinari 17y ago
To provide counterpoint to your "Once you go Mac you never go...", I did exactly that last month. My previous computer was PB12. Yes, it is dated, but until unibody MBP13 introduction Apple didn't have any other model to replace it. Well, they still don't have anything able to replace it. MBP13 has shiny display, non-replaceable battery etc. Combined with unavailability of next OSX release for PPC, I had to choose what's next. So I got an Thinkpad, that has proper display instead of mirror, easily replaceable batteries and few other perks (you can put a second battery into DVD-RW bay, and it has built-in WWAN card with great antena, oh and the keyboard rules, yay!). Regarding Unix-yness, you can run Linux of your choice either natively or in vmware (I run mine in vmware), and I'm satisfied. I don't care for iLife (I used just iTunes anyway; winamp is OK replacement) or iWork. Things that I do care for are equally well done on Windows and OSX.
fatdog789 17y ago
MS didn't make the wrong processor choice to begin with; it was never stuck, so it didn't need to make that change. Game consoles have been around as long as, if not longer than, personal computers. For the past 10 years straight, the top selling games have been...computer games, like WoW and the Sims (and Myst, before them). Distributed source control is not the end all of programming. At best, it's a niche. Real companies use commercial source control systems. Name one major game coming out next year that uses OpenGL. PS3 games don't count. Can't think of one, can you? BTW, last month, Windows Vista shipped more copies than OSX sold in its entire decade-long run. So...Windows is not likely to become irrelevant soon. As for fun...Clicking the pretty buttons to close windows may amuse folks of a simpler persuasion, but I find it more enjoyable to play actual games on my computer.
- drawkbox 17y ago
  WoW and the Sims 3 both use OpenGL based rendering engines (actually dual OpenGL and DirectX). They are multi-platform (Blizzard is smart) and run on Mac and PC. Almost all game engines except valve use this approach. This makes porting to PS3, Wii and other OpenGL like toolkits easy. XBOX360 + PC are DirectX based and PC/Mac/Wii/PS3 are OpenGL based. The highest selling games usually target both types. I was just stating due to the recent consoles there is largely not a reason to get a PC solely for gaming as much as there always was. I personally am a PC gamer but I also develop games and most new stuff is multi-platform.