5 ms·

Apple forced to increase warranty to two years in Australia

48 points by testrun 13y ago

jbuzbee 13y ago
Apple price increase in 3,2,1... For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction
- kalleboo 13y ago
  Hopefully with a corresponding product quality increase to 2 years planned obsolescence instead of only 1.
- ruytlm 13y ago
  Good thing we've got this regulation to protect consumers! Meanwhile, in the bitcoin thread... ..wait, is that the sort of equal and opposite reaction you meant?
- NickNameNick 13y ago
  Apple are already charging extra an AU to cover this.
- nl 13y ago
  Apple price increase in 3,2,1... It shouldn't. Apple were already legally liable to repair the products for that long (or longer) under Australian law. This just stops them misrepresenting their responsibilities. (And if it leads to an increase in claims, which does force them to increase their prices, then yes, I agree: Apple products must have been underpriced originally. Or another way of looking at it is that it explains how they maintain their high margins)
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  No, not necessarily. What's true in physics is not necessarily true in economics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand
- danielbarla 13y ago
  > For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction Yes, like (probable) loss of market share when you increase prices arbitrarily. It all balances out eventually.
  - naturalethic 13y ago
    Government mandates are indeed arbitrary. Gold star.
    - danielbarla 13y ago
      Granted, the Aus government has a history of over-protective, arbitrary mandates (e.g. hot tap regulations [1]). I don't feel strongly in either direction, although I have an aversion to silly and wasteful rules. That said, in the case of mandatory warranty policy, I can definitely see some merit. It definitely seems like certain appliances are being sold in a lemon market [2] (think blenders, etc), where the market is flooded with sub-standard, cheap products. These can become the norm and set overly low price expectations, making it difficult for good products to compete. How this applies to top-end smartphones is another discussion. I don't see why it should be difficult for a them to honor the policy, given their focus on quality. What's important is that all companies honor the mandate, and compete on an equal footing w.r.t. consumer expectations. [1] http://www.phaa.net.au/documents/130201_Hot%20Tap%20Water%20Temperature%20and%20Scalds%20Policy%20FINAL.pdf http://www.phaa.net.au/documents/130201_Hot%20Tap%20Water%20... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons
      - venus 13y ago
        What's so arbitrary and over-protective about the tap regulations you linked to? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and the statistics presented about the decline in third degree burns is a great outcome. Isn't that exactly what government is supposed to do?
        danielbarla 13y ago
adnrw 13y ago
Apple have been required to do this for a long time, they just never really advertised it (and per the ACCC judgement, have been misrepresenting what they are obligated to do). That being said, they have definitely been repairing products up to two years after purchase for the last little while (up to a year or so). We've had a couple of phones replaced and an iMac repaired that we've had for about 18 months without any issues.
- nwh 13y ago
  Yeah, they did for mine and tried to charge me for it. The invoice for the charges was a "misprint" was was hastily taken out of my hands and replaced with a blank one when I mentioned that the warranty period was two years.
kalleboo 13y ago
They've had to do this in the EU for a while now (information here http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/ http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/ ) I'm surprised they're trying to pull a fast one in Australia.
andy_ppp 13y ago
I was under the impression you should expect electronics and white goods to last a full 5 years in the UK. It's not unreasonable to expect things to still work after this time, especially with Apple's premium. The Sale of Goods Act 1979 says that goods should be as follows: Of satisfactory quality. This means the goods must meet the standards that any reasonable person would expect, taking into account the description, the price and all other relevant information. In some circumstances, the retailer may be liable for any statement made by the manufacturer about the goods. Satisfactory quality includes the appearance and finish of the goods, their safety and durability and whether they are free from defects (including minor faults) Fit for the purpose that goods of this type are generally sold. They must also be fit for any specific or particular purpose made known to the seller at the time of the agreement.
- sbuk 13y ago
  The SoGA is only relevant if the device is purchased directly from Apple. It stipulates that the retailer is responsible for upholding the warranty. For Apple to be liable for repairs/replacements where 3rd parties are involved, the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 says that they cannot exclude their responsibilities under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. This demands that they supply goods that are of satisfactory quality. However, if the devices have inherent defects that takes longer to reveal themselves that would normally be deemed reasonable, the onus is on the retailer to provide a remedy. Edit: IANAL, but this information comes from the Which? consumer group.
- bowlofpetunias 13y ago
  There is a minimum warranty throughout the EU, and most countries go well beyond that. This is why Apple was forced to change their Apple Care plan, since most of what you would buy is already guaranteed by law. (Apple isn't the only one that tries that, many brick & mortar electronics retailers still try to sell people "insurance" that for 90% exists of rights you already have.)
  - sbuk 13y ago
    In my experience, AppleCare covers more than a warranty, which only covers defective devices or parts thereof. For example, AppleCare+ for iPads and iPhones covers accidental damage. Consumer law hinges on what is and what isn't reasonable. So a cracked screen due to consumer clumsiness wouldn't be replaced under normal warranty terms as the law says it's unreasonable for the retailer to be expected to cover that. A failed switch, however, should be replaced a cost to the retailer unless there are reasonable grounds to deny so, i.e. evidence of tampering, which would include bodged self repairs.
joseph_cooney 13y ago
So if I bought an extra 2 years of applecare for my MBP do I get half that credited back, since it is only one 'extra' year?
- teamonkey 13y ago
  At least in the UK, AppleCare exceeds the service requirements of the warranty. If a component fails through normal use, the warranty has you covered. If your case is cracked because you dropped your laptop, warranty might not cover it but AppleCare will.
  - tehwalrus 13y ago
    Or your house insurance will cover accidental damage (as well as theft of your bag on a train/in a cafe, etc). I was delighted when my house insurance bill went down considerably, because my newer Macbook was worth just less than £1000, where the previous one had been just over - meaning it became covered by the policy without a separate declaration, and an additional fee.
    - sbuk 13y ago
      I suppose 1 benefit AppleCare provides is no excess fees; the whole cost of repair is covered.
naturalethic 13y ago
Add one year of apple care to the retail price.
stevewillows 13y ago
It's funny, my early 2008 macbook pros faulty graphics card gave up the ghost today. Turns out there was an extended warranty for people's who died up until last year. In a sense I was lucky it lasted as long as it did, but despite this 'good fortune' I'm still out a laptop. When I took it to the genius bar asking why they didn't do a recall, they suggested I part it out.
fosk 13y ago
This already happened in Italy[1] and in other european countries like Belgium[2] [1] http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/12/apple-hit-with-12-million-fine-for-misleading-italian-consumers/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/12/apple-hit-with-12-milli... [2] http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/01/following-fine-in-italy-belgian-group-sues-apple-for-warranty-practices/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/01/following-fine-in-italy...
camus2 13y ago
Apple is the only business that might take your gear out of warranty and fix it for you.I broke my macbook screen 2 times and they replaced it for free even if it was not under warranty anymore. That's the main reason why i buy Apple's gear, but i guess i pay a premium for that upfront.
- robbiep 13y ago
  My sister (totally tech naive) got a new (1 model out of date, but 2 models newer than her old one) MacBook Pro after having 3-4 problems with it (all under warranty) in her final 2 months of warranty and into her third year of ownership (I had made her get AppleCare). I've always been very happy with apple service

48 points by testrun 13y ago

jbuzbee 13y ago

Apple price increase in 3,2,1... For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction

kalleboo 13y ago
Hopefully with a corresponding product quality increase to 2 years planned obsolescence instead of only 1.
ruytlm 13y ago
Good thing we've got this regulation to protect consumers! Meanwhile, in the bitcoin thread... ..wait, is that the sort of equal and opposite reaction you meant?
NickNameNick 13y ago
Apple are already charging extra an AU to cover this.
nl 13y ago
Apple price increase in 3,2,1... It shouldn't. Apple were already legally liable to repair the products for that long (or longer) under Australian law. This just stops them misrepresenting their responsibilities. (And if it leads to an increase in claims, which does force them to increase their prices, then yes, I agree: Apple products must have been underpriced originally. Or another way of looking at it is that it explains how they maintain their high margins)
anigbrowl 13y ago
No, not necessarily. What's true in physics is not necessarily true in economics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand
danielbarla 13y ago
> For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction Yes, like (probable) loss of market share when you increase prices arbitrarily. It all balances out eventually.
- naturalethic 13y ago
  Government mandates are indeed arbitrary. Gold star.
  - danielbarla 13y ago
    Granted, the Aus government has a history of over-protective, arbitrary mandates (e.g. hot tap regulations [1]). I don't feel strongly in either direction, although I have an aversion to silly and wasteful rules. That said, in the case of mandatory warranty policy, I can definitely see some merit. It definitely seems like certain appliances are being sold in a lemon market [2] (think blenders, etc), where the market is flooded with sub-standard, cheap products. These can become the norm and set overly low price expectations, making it difficult for good products to compete. How this applies to top-end smartphones is another discussion. I don't see why it should be difficult for a them to honor the policy, given their focus on quality. What's important is that all companies honor the mandate, and compete on an equal footing w.r.t. consumer expectations. [1] http://www.phaa.net.au/documents/130201_Hot%20Tap%20Water%20Temperature%20and%20Scalds%20Policy%20FINAL.pdf http://www.phaa.net.au/documents/130201_Hot%20Tap%20Water%20... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons
    - venus 13y ago
      What's so arbitrary and over-protective about the tap regulations you linked to? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and the statistics presented about the decline in third degree burns is a great outcome. Isn't that exactly what government is supposed to do?
      - danielbarla 13y ago

adnrw 13y ago

Apple have been required to do this for a long time, they just never really advertised it (and per the ACCC judgement, have been misrepresenting what they are obligated to do). That being said, they have definitely been repairing products up to two years after purchase for the last little while (up to a year or so). We've had a couple of phones replaced and an iMac repaired that we've had for about 18 months without any issues.

nwh 13y ago
Yeah, they did for mine and tried to charge me for it. The invoice for the charges was a "misprint" was was hastily taken out of my hands and replaced with a blank one when I mentioned that the warranty period was two years.

kalleboo 13y ago

They've had to do this in the EU for a while now (information here http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/ http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/ ) I'm surprised they're trying to pull a fast one in Australia.

andy_ppp 13y ago

I was under the impression you should expect electronics and white goods to last a full 5 years in the UK. It's not unreasonable to expect things to still work after this time, especially with Apple's premium. The Sale of Goods Act 1979 says that goods should be as follows: Of satisfactory quality. This means the goods must meet the standards that any reasonable person would expect, taking into account the description, the price and all other relevant information. In some circumstances, the retailer may be liable for any statement made by the manufacturer about the goods. Satisfactory quality includes the appearance and finish of the goods, their safety and durability and whether they are free from defects (including minor faults) Fit for the purpose that goods of this type are generally sold. They must also be fit for any specific or particular purpose made known to the seller at the time of the agreement.

sbuk 13y ago
The SoGA is only relevant if the device is purchased directly from Apple. It stipulates that the retailer is responsible for upholding the warranty. For Apple to be liable for repairs/replacements where 3rd parties are involved, the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 says that they cannot exclude their responsibilities under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. This demands that they supply goods that are of satisfactory quality. However, if the devices have inherent defects that takes longer to reveal themselves that would normally be deemed reasonable, the onus is on the retailer to provide a remedy. Edit: IANAL, but this information comes from the Which? consumer group.
bowlofpetunias 13y ago
There is a minimum warranty throughout the EU, and most countries go well beyond that. This is why Apple was forced to change their Apple Care plan, since most of what you would buy is already guaranteed by law. (Apple isn't the only one that tries that, many brick & mortar electronics retailers still try to sell people "insurance" that for 90% exists of rights you already have.)
- sbuk 13y ago
  In my experience, AppleCare covers more than a warranty, which only covers defective devices or parts thereof. For example, AppleCare+ for iPads and iPhones covers accidental damage. Consumer law hinges on what is and what isn't reasonable. So a cracked screen due to consumer clumsiness wouldn't be replaced under normal warranty terms as the law says it's unreasonable for the retailer to be expected to cover that. A failed switch, however, should be replaced a cost to the retailer unless there are reasonable grounds to deny so, i.e. evidence of tampering, which would include bodged self repairs.

joseph_cooney 13y ago

So if I bought an extra 2 years of applecare for my MBP do I get half that credited back, since it is only one 'extra' year?

teamonkey 13y ago
At least in the UK, AppleCare exceeds the service requirements of the warranty. If a component fails through normal use, the warranty has you covered. If your case is cracked because you dropped your laptop, warranty might not cover it but AppleCare will.
- tehwalrus 13y ago
  Or your house insurance will cover accidental damage (as well as theft of your bag on a train/in a cafe, etc). I was delighted when my house insurance bill went down considerably, because my newer Macbook was worth just less than £1000, where the previous one had been just over - meaning it became covered by the policy without a separate declaration, and an additional fee.
  - sbuk 13y ago
    I suppose 1 benefit AppleCare provides is no excess fees; the whole cost of repair is covered.

naturalethic 13y ago

Add one year of apple care to the retail price.

stevewillows 13y ago

It's funny, my early 2008 macbook pros faulty graphics card gave up the ghost today. Turns out there was an extended warranty for people's who died up until last year. In a sense I was lucky it lasted as long as it did, but despite this 'good fortune' I'm still out a laptop. When I took it to the genius bar asking why they didn't do a recall, they suggested I part it out.

fosk 13y ago

This already happened in Italy[1] and in other european countries like Belgium[2] [1] http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/12/apple-hit-with-12-million-fine-for-misleading-italian-consumers/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/12/apple-hit-with-12-milli... [2] http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/01/following-fine-in-italy-belgian-group-sues-apple-for-warranty-practices/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/01/following-fine-in-italy...

camus2 13y ago

Apple is the only business that might take your gear out of warranty and fix it for you.I broke my macbook screen 2 times and they replaced it for free even if it was not under warranty anymore. That's the main reason why i buy Apple's gear, but i guess i pay a premium for that upfront.

robbiep 13y ago
My sister (totally tech naive) got a new (1 model out of date, but 2 models newer than her old one) MacBook Pro after having 3-4 problems with it (all under warranty) in her final 2 months of warranty and into her third year of ownership (I had made her get AppleCare). I've always been very happy with apple service