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Claiming that the NSA scandal is the primary reason for the Saab win is an overly US-centric view. From TFA: "Until earlier this year, Boeing's F/A-18 Super Ho

• _djo_ 13y ago
  The article does not source the claim about the Super Hornet being the front-runner, although previous reports have claimed that Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff preferred the Super Hornet for political reasons. The part of the sentence that's an actual quote doesn't contradict my post.
• fiatmoney 13y ago
  Even if the NSA's spying program ended up not affecting the outcome of the fighter decision, it can still be worthwhile to claim that it did if they have an independent goal of reducing that program.
  • pauljburke 13y ago
    I think the NSA would know if that was the case and be able to pass that information along.
    • growupkids 13y ago
      Very likely, although they probably wouldn't pass this on the public.
• tedunangst 13y ago
  Not exactly, but consider that Brazil gains leverage simply by saying Boeing was in the running, even if they weren't. e.g., Brazil wants the NSA gone, but they don't have any means to apply the necessary pressure. Point at an already failed Boeing deal, and tada, now you have a pressure point. Or possibly Brazil had promised to go with Boeing, but recently decided Saab was a better deal. Backing out would cost them whatever political capital is traded in smoky rooms. Now they can point to the NSA and save face. International relations are complicated.
  • deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  • growupkids 13y ago
    It's always surprising to me when people believe anonymous government sources, when the statement is in that governments interest. Government personnel are paid to act and speak in their governments interest, which includes lying, exaggerating, provoking, etc., and in my experience when that source is anonymous and when the statement is advantageous to that governments interests it's probably not true, or not the whole truth. It lets that government publicly disavow knowledge of the potentially inflammatory statement (we don't want to hurt US relations!), while simultaneously telling the opposite story with deniability (we want our citizens to think well gladly hurt US relations!). For all we know this "leak" is being used to legitimize something else entirely, perhaps the Brazilian military is unhappy withy the decision and this story exists to deflect criticisms from domestic sources: we picked the unpopular aircraft because the NSA would use Boeings aircraft to spy on us. Or we want to send a message, etc. Welcome to world politics, where the truth is rarely what people say it is.
    • gabriel34 13y ago
      Indeed, the Brazilian military had openly declared the Saab Gripen as their favorite after months of technical studies and tests. On the other hand, the NSA spying on Brazil's president and on some large companies (sign of a commercial use of NSA's resources, not just defense as is otherwise claimed) may have contributed to the souring of some relations used to lobby for Boeing, therefore weakening it's position and enabling Saab to break the deadlock.
• rcruzeiro 13y ago
  The Gripen jet fighter was already the Air Force favorite amongst the contenders. In 2009 the President had settled for the Rafale and it caused an uproar in the Air Force as they had not been consulted and had previously expressed that their fighter of choice would be the Gripen. The government had said multiple times that the F-18 was a too costly option, so this statement about the NSA is probably just a way to gain some leverage over the situation.
  • ryguytilidie 13y ago
    I love how people keep acting like Brazil is being somewhat evil here by trying to gain leverage...to stop us from constant illegal spying...Yep, super objectionable.
    • rbanffy 13y ago
      We shouldn't forget the illegal spying happens against American citizens in American soil. I suppose the NSA's charter includes spying on Brazil and they wouldn't be doing their jobs if they weren't spying on us. Much like we probably try to intercept every communication for of foreign diplomatic missions in Brazilian soil.
      • tedunangst 13y ago
        That's why Obama has his secret conversations inside his tent of secrets. (Not just in Brazil, but the picture of him in the tent happens to be from Brazil.) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12810675 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12810675
        • mogrim 13y ago
          Never heard of the tent before, interesting - but why doesn't it cover the floor? I was assuming it was some kind of faraday cage, but the lack of floor covering is a bit weird...
          • 13y ago
• rbanffy 13y ago
  > "Until earlier this year, Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet had been considered the front runner.. That simply isn't true. The Brazilian government was very clearly pointing towards the Rafale while the air force was somewhat leaning towards the Gripen NG. There was enormous pressure not to drop the F/A-18 altogether, despite the clear shortcomings of Boeing's proposal.
• HannibalLecter 13y ago
  People are opportunists. Of course they'll say NSA was to blame... but then this whole process wouldn't be about airplanes but politics. When you're choosing a product because of politics and not because of features and benefits -- you're making big mistakes. NSA spying sours customer support how? It doesn't. Brazil wants to keep America out of Brazil? I can see that but it's not about this spying business... or they would never have accepted the bid.