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Just no intrinsic value to you... yet. But ask people in Cyprus who have had their money confiscated by their bank if they think bitcoins would've been valuabl

Just no intrinsic value to you... yet. But ask people in Cyprus who have had their money confiscated by their bank if they think bitcoins would've been valuable to them, or people in China who've walked across the border with a thumbdrive of bitcoins/litecoins/??coins. Ask anyone who has made an overseas funds transfer if doing so was quicker and more painless than at bank. Volatility is offset by the overall price rise. Saying it has no intrinsic value is a moronic statement. The main lesson to learn is in the altchains... otherwise it's just replacing one set of paper elites with a crypto elite. That's where the real awakening comes in, anyone can be an early adopter. Also, bitcoin is not a private blockchain, but even central banks could use cryptocoin implementations to move funds around internally. It's a piece of open-source software, that's a very important part of the equation of bitcoin's value: there can be pump and dumps at times, but overall it's severly missing the point to only see it as such. add: now that I think about it, it'd be interesting for corporations to add the equivalent of an intranet of cryptocoins for budgeting and spending. There are tons of information systems potentials in bitcoin it blows my mind... even without some official government endorsement.. just in the software itself. Some intra/outer mini-exchange interfacing into some b2b portal to then access the public blockchains.

seiji 13y ago
walked across the border with a thumbdrive of bitcoins/litecoins/??coins. What about walking across the border with the account credentials of a WoW character with a lot of gold? intranet of cryptocoins for budgeting and spending. Is there a way to make a "trusted bitcoin" for internal use only where you don't have to do all the computation? I guess at that point it could just be a centralized Excel spreadsheet for all anybody inside the company cares.
- adrianwaj 13y ago
  You're not thinking too deeply. I think a company could use an intra-blockchain to run a micro-economy within it. Transactions take place that enable it to function. Also, there is an interface between intra and public blockchains. If your department wants pens, it must buy it internally from the Supplies department. At some point Supplies converts its intracoins to public cash or coins (with management approval^) to buy more pens. You work for intra-coins, and at some point you convert it to cash or public coins. Not sure if the overhead of these micro-transactions are worth it, on the other hand, conglomerates of companies could exist. But the intra-coins have real value, because management will convert them to proper cash or public cryptocoins. The key is making sure an employee can't just cash out with intra-coins somewhere else and quit. ^ the key here is that things can be monitored and controlled on a sped-up blockchain, while still allowing a market mechanism to take place. Perhaps pens isn't the best example, more like certain factors of production. The more I think about it, the more useful this seems to be. Especially attaching notes to transactions, and mining all coins instantly, and management dishing them out as needed. Perhaps creating more if needed. If the company is running low on cash, it can adjust the exchange rate, so the coins are worth less. If the company is doing well, the value of the coins goes up. This also gives the firm incentive to do well and be efficient, especially if staff are paid in intra-coins. Companies have intranets, why not intracoins?
  - seiji 13y ago
    mining all coins instantly, Ah, that's the part I was unsure about. Setting up a new block chain and instantly collecting all coin issuance sets up a lot of nice use cases. Yes, that's amazing. If bitcoin ever does become widely accepted, it'll be because a new chain of coins is used that have been 100% mined by a private party (or government) handing them out. When I was at IBM, each manager had fake "Blue Bucks" they used for internal cross-departmental services (moving a cubicle cost $100 "blue bucks," getting a new ethernet drop cost $50 "blue bucks," etc).
    - adrianwaj 13y ago
      If mining all instantly, the key with intracoins is getting the equations right in terms of issuance and supply. There'd have to be some way of issuing them properly. Even if it just equated to the amount of cash reserves and/or cryptocoins the company had, because the idea is that anyone can cash out their intracoins if they need to. Staff need the confidence that they can do that at any time (provided management approves of it (perhaps only some staff have cashout approval privileges)) but the ability has to be there, even if management's willingness is not. For example, an automotive company needs to buy new tires, and it's the tire department that only has intracoins by having sold tires to production line, so that department cashes them out on the company exchange and buys tires from Dunlop. The production line needs some way of getting reimbursed by management or a Sales department who recycles coins back into it (once cars have been sold), so it can then buy new tires and other factors of production to keep making cars. Perhaps Sales would make an order for xx cars from Production and pay with the intracoins it has converted from the cash/cryptocoins it has gained at the edge of the organization. And this also leads to interesting use cases with company conglomerates -- sort of like frequent flyer points that can be used interchangeably across certain groups of airlines... but in this case intracoins across certain allianced firms.
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    It would be insane for employees to accept payment in scrip without a promise of a fixed exchange rate. Even with such a promise it would not be especially sensible (because if the company implodes you lose your job and some of your savings...). (I mean sure, you could trust that management with their total control of the scrip would not manipulate it to the advantage of management, but good luck with that)

seiji 13y ago

walked across the border with a thumbdrive of bitcoins/litecoins/??coins. What about walking across the border with the account credentials of a WoW character with a lot of gold? intranet of cryptocoins for budgeting and spending. Is there a way to make a "trusted bitcoin" for internal use only where you don't have to do all the computation? I guess at that point it could just be a centralized Excel spreadsheet for all anybody inside the company cares.

adrianwaj 13y ago
You're not thinking too deeply. I think a company could use an intra-blockchain to run a micro-economy within it. Transactions take place that enable it to function. Also, there is an interface between intra and public blockchains. If your department wants pens, it must buy it internally from the Supplies department. At some point Supplies converts its intracoins to public cash or coins (with management approval^) to buy more pens. You work for intra-coins, and at some point you convert it to cash or public coins. Not sure if the overhead of these micro-transactions are worth it, on the other hand, conglomerates of companies could exist. But the intra-coins have real value, because management will convert them to proper cash or public cryptocoins. The key is making sure an employee can't just cash out with intra-coins somewhere else and quit. ^ the key here is that things can be monitored and controlled on a sped-up blockchain, while still allowing a market mechanism to take place. Perhaps pens isn't the best example, more like certain factors of production. The more I think about it, the more useful this seems to be. Especially attaching notes to transactions, and mining all coins instantly, and management dishing them out as needed. Perhaps creating more if needed. If the company is running low on cash, it can adjust the exchange rate, so the coins are worth less. If the company is doing well, the value of the coins goes up. This also gives the firm incentive to do well and be efficient, especially if staff are paid in intra-coins. Companies have intranets, why not intracoins?
- seiji 13y ago
  mining all coins instantly, Ah, that's the part I was unsure about. Setting up a new block chain and instantly collecting all coin issuance sets up a lot of nice use cases. Yes, that's amazing. If bitcoin ever does become widely accepted, it'll be because a new chain of coins is used that have been 100% mined by a private party (or government) handing them out. When I was at IBM, each manager had fake "Blue Bucks" they used for internal cross-departmental services (moving a cubicle cost $100 "blue bucks," getting a new ethernet drop cost $50 "blue bucks," etc).
  - adrianwaj 13y ago
    If mining all instantly, the key with intracoins is getting the equations right in terms of issuance and supply. There'd have to be some way of issuing them properly. Even if it just equated to the amount of cash reserves and/or cryptocoins the company had, because the idea is that anyone can cash out their intracoins if they need to. Staff need the confidence that they can do that at any time (provided management approves of it (perhaps only some staff have cashout approval privileges)) but the ability has to be there, even if management's willingness is not. For example, an automotive company needs to buy new tires, and it's the tire department that only has intracoins by having sold tires to production line, so that department cashes them out on the company exchange and buys tires from Dunlop. The production line needs some way of getting reimbursed by management or a Sales department who recycles coins back into it (once cars have been sold), so it can then buy new tires and other factors of production to keep making cars. Perhaps Sales would make an order for xx cars from Production and pay with the intracoins it has converted from the cash/cryptocoins it has gained at the edge of the organization. And this also leads to interesting use cases with company conglomerates -- sort of like frequent flyer points that can be used interchangeably across certain groups of airlines... but in this case intracoins across certain allianced firms.
- maxerickson 13y ago
  It would be insane for employees to accept payment in scrip without a promise of a fixed exchange rate. Even with such a promise it would not be especially sensible (because if the company implodes you lose your job and some of your savings...). (I mean sure, you could trust that management with their total control of the scrip would not manipulate it to the advantage of management, but good luck with that)