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She says, later in the article, that this may not have been a sexist remark, but at the time it was hard to see that. I think that's someone who's quite good at

She says, later in the article, that this may not have been a sexist remark, but at the time it was hard to see that. I think that's someone who's quite good at introspection, in fact, since she anticipated your comment, or the first part of it. On the second half, I've never been managed by someone who I wasn't supposed to learn something from - have you, really?

geoka9 13y ago
Sure, you can learn something from anybody, but often the managers don't have the time to do actual development and dive into specifics, so they end up being taught more than they teach. A manager is essentially an organizer and decision maker.
coldtea 13y ago
>On the second half, I've never been managed by someone who I wasn't supposed to learn something from - have you, really? Are you kidding me? One of the more basic roles in tech/IT is that of the idiotic, clueless Project Manager (which 90%+ of the time is a male btw). That's how the Dilbert guy made his millions...
- tehwalrus 13y ago
  I've never actually come across that person - it is a caricature. If you have, really, then that's cool, I was asking for your experience!
  - coldtea 13y ago
    Damn man, really? You're very lucky then. I have tons of stories to tell, but instead I propose you check this: http://thedailywtf.com/ http://thedailywtf.com/
    - tehwalrus 13y ago
      I never really believed that the DailyWTF was non-fiction - seriously? The managers I've had have all had flaws of one type or another, but they've also had strengths that I couldn't gain without years of training/working under them. I wouldn't last long under someone I didn't respect - that's a recipe for resignation.
      - coldtea 13y ago
        >I never really believed that the DailyWTF was non-fiction - seriously? Again, are you kidding me? It sure has some fabricated pieces, but I've seen tons of similar examples in real life, working with other programmers and project managers. Heck, you can find tons of DailyWTF worthy material even in Stack Overflow questions and answers, and those are 100% legit non-fiction.
        tehwalrus 13y ago
        > It sure has some fabricated pieces, but I've seen tons of similar examples in real life OK, what are your real life examples? :) I'm trying to see through the myth. > you can find tons of DailyWTF worthy material even in Stack Overflow questions and answers Plenty of examples of crappy code on Stack Overflow, not so many examples of crappy managers.
tedunangst 13y ago
This is a tough rule to follow. I'm a man. I'm talking to a woman. I'm not allowed to say anything that she thinks I wouldn't say to a man, regardless of whether I actually would say it to a man. How am I supposed to know what that set of things is? Prior to reading this article, I would not have included "you're emotionally attached to your code" in that set because that is something I would say to a man. I can only wonder what other things I do say to men that women think I don't say to men.
- tehwalrus 13y ago
  Nobody is suggesting that this is something you can't say, to anyone, in an appropriate circumstance. The author is merely explaining why it was difficult in this case, and how it made her feel. If the context hadn't been in front of a client, perhaps she would have been able to ask for clarification of what was meant - and the whole thing wouldn't have cause such a big, hidden reaction in her. The context made this more difficult that it should have been - it is not saying "don't ever say this or you're sexist", that is what you've read into it yourself.
  - johnbm 13y ago
    The difference is that nobody cares if a man felt the same way, nor would he feel a need to blog about it years later.
    - tehwalrus 13y ago
      ...what? Are you seriously arguing that there's a fundamental difference in the way the sexes harbour grudges? I think you're wrong there dude...
      - johnbm 13y ago
        Look up the statistics for how men vs women participate in direct violence and violence by proxy, and you'll see why you're wrong.
- 13y ago

geoka9 13y ago

Sure, you can learn something from anybody, but often the managers don't have the time to do actual development and dive into specifics, so they end up being taught more than they teach. A manager is essentially an organizer and decision maker.

coldtea 13y ago

>On the second half, I've never been managed by someone who I wasn't supposed to learn something from - have you, really? Are you kidding me? One of the more basic roles in tech/IT is that of the idiotic, clueless Project Manager (which 90%+ of the time is a male btw). That's how the Dilbert guy made his millions...

tehwalrus 13y ago
I've never actually come across that person - it is a caricature. If you have, really, then that's cool, I was asking for your experience!
- coldtea 13y ago
  Damn man, really? You're very lucky then. I have tons of stories to tell, but instead I propose you check this: http://thedailywtf.com/ http://thedailywtf.com/
  - tehwalrus 13y ago
    I never really believed that the DailyWTF was non-fiction - seriously? The managers I've had have all had flaws of one type or another, but they've also had strengths that I couldn't gain without years of training/working under them. I wouldn't last long under someone I didn't respect - that's a recipe for resignation.
    - coldtea 13y ago
      >I never really believed that the DailyWTF was non-fiction - seriously? Again, are you kidding me? It sure has some fabricated pieces, but I've seen tons of similar examples in real life, working with other programmers and project managers. Heck, you can find tons of DailyWTF worthy material even in Stack Overflow questions and answers, and those are 100% legit non-fiction.
      - tehwalrus 13y ago
        > It sure has some fabricated pieces, but I've seen tons of similar examples in real life OK, what are your real life examples? :) I'm trying to see through the myth. > you can find tons of DailyWTF worthy material even in Stack Overflow questions and answers Plenty of examples of crappy code on Stack Overflow, not so many examples of crappy managers.

tedunangst 13y ago

This is a tough rule to follow. I'm a man. I'm talking to a woman. I'm not allowed to say anything that she thinks I wouldn't say to a man, regardless of whether I actually would say it to a man. How am I supposed to know what that set of things is? Prior to reading this article, I would not have included "you're emotionally attached to your code" in that set because that is something I would say to a man. I can only wonder what other things I do say to men that women think I don't say to men.

tehwalrus 13y ago
Nobody is suggesting that this is something you can't say, to anyone, in an appropriate circumstance. The author is merely explaining why it was difficult in this case, and how it made her feel. If the context hadn't been in front of a client, perhaps she would have been able to ask for clarification of what was meant - and the whole thing wouldn't have cause such a big, hidden reaction in her. The context made this more difficult that it should have been - it is not saying "don't ever say this or you're sexist", that is what you've read into it yourself.
- johnbm 13y ago
  The difference is that nobody cares if a man felt the same way, nor would he feel a need to blog about it years later.
  - tehwalrus 13y ago
    ...what? Are you seriously arguing that there's a fundamental difference in the way the sexes harbour grudges? I think you're wrong there dude...
    - johnbm 13y ago
      Look up the statistics for how men vs women participate in direct violence and violence by proxy, and you'll see why you're wrong.
13y ago