6 ms·

I never know what to make of these articles. I started out with low pay in Silicon Valley, too; I took a job at a startup in 1999 making $15/hour doing IT deskt

I never know what to make of these articles. I started out with low pay in Silicon Valley, too; I took a job at a startup in 1999 making $15/hour doing IT desktop support. In 2002 (edit: this was 2002, not 2001), when I quit to do consulting and start my own company, things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then. I am a college dropout. By traditional standards, then, this guy has more than I do: He has a college degree. Working at a tech company, he had to see that the developers/sysadmins/computer folks made more than he did. I find this juxtaposition interesting because, certainly, a similar article could have been written about me in 1999. $15 an hour was a terrible wage then in the Valley, too. Faced with something similar, I asked several of the developers at our company to teach me development. They were amused at this young 18-year-old girl asking them what a "for loop" was. But they taught me. It took me a while to pick up Linux system administration, bash shell scripting, Perl and PHP (this was in 1999-2000.) When I dropped out of school in 2001, my parents cut me off financially, so I shared tiny apartments, slept on couches, and made ends meet. Now, at age 32, I've bootstrapped a startup to a 7-figure sale and am now the CEO of a funded startup. For most of my life, I've dealt with depression and believing I was not "good enough." In that way, I empathize with Manny. If he's reading this, I would like to say to him: I stand here as proof that a minority with no college degree and no formal education can make it in this world. You live in Silicon Valley. If you really want to pull yourself out of poverty, all doors can be open to you. The first step is believing that you can do it.

grecy 13y ago
> things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then. You were making $50k - (in 2001?) - that's $65k in 2012 dollars. This guy is making $16,800 ($1,400/mo). That's 4 times less than you were, and you think you're comparable?
- ericabiz 13y ago
  I started out doing desktop support for $15/hour. (I actually think I started out making less, but I'm not sure how much "less" was--perhaps $12/hour? so I quoted the higher number.) $49,500/year was after I spent over a year learning development, and our startup got bought out by a huge company, and I interviewed into a role at the big company as a developer. I also started out working for a subcontractor, much like Manny in the article. Indeed, I do think it's comparable. Manny also has lower expenses than I did, since he lives with his mom, and in a traditional way of looking at things, he has more "opportunities" open to him since he has a college degree and I was a dropout.
  - grecy 13y ago
    > I started out doing desktop support for $15/hour. $15/hour * 40 hours a week * 52 weeks = $31k in 2001 dollars = $40,000 in 2012 dollars. That's still more that double Manny's income. > Manny also has lower expenses than I did, since he lives with his mom A person living on the streets has lower expenses than you too, but that doesn't mean it's by choice or a good thing.
    - ericabiz 13y ago
      I didn't work full-time when I started there. College student, remember? I didn't have a full-time gig until I dropped out of college in 2001. BigCo refused to bring on part-time workers, so I quit school and interviewed into the developer role, which was FT and necessitated me dropping out of school. Edited my previous post to reflect correct timeline: 1999: Moved to Valley; got a job doing desktop support at a startup 2000: Startup gets bought by BigCo 2001: BigCo says they won't hire PT employees. I quit school to take $49,500/yr FT dev job at BigCo 2002: Quit dev job and started working on my own stuff (I had paying customers for my company in 2001, but 2002 was when I finally quit and went into consulting and web hosting full time.)
      - schrodinger 13y ago
        Ok great, so become a developer to make more money. What if he doesn't want to be a developer? What if he doesn't have the talent to become one? Then he has no right to complain? Is being a developer more noble than being a security guard? You have to realize we're lucky to be talented in a field that pays really well.
  - geogra4 13y ago
    Is the solution for everyone to be a developer? What would that world look like? The world still needs people to do jobs like security, burger flipping, and stocking shelves until everything is automated. It's not even necessarily the pay level that is exploitative. It's the lack of job security and benefits that was once commonplace when a large percentage of the workforce was union.
  - 13y ago
stephencanon 13y ago
If you really want to pull yourself out of poverty and you’re very lucky, all doors can be open to you. Not everyone will be as lucky as you were.
- ericabiz 13y ago
  I'm genuinely curious as to why people believe that it is 100% up to "luck" that some people are successful and others are not. If it was "luck", wouldn't CEOs be evenly distributed amongst minorities, men, and women? Or at least per the population distribution? Or are white males just that much more "lucky" than women and minorities? If you think answering those questions is tough, you and I are on the same page--that's why I don't ascribe this to "luck."
  - ThomPete 13y ago
    It's luck because plenty of people do exactly the same thing as you and me. Work hard, take what they can get, have ambition and yet still don't make it. If you want to see this in it's purest form look at music and art. Plenty of amazing hardworking musicians that will never make a dime. Plenty of hacks who will.
    - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
      Why do people always reference hard work? Ditch diggers work hard. Migrant farm laborers work hard. So what?
      - cmiles74 13y ago
        Hard work should have value and should be rewarded with a wage that one can live on. While the person in this article is living, they are still not earning enough to support themselves and their family without supplementing from a food pantry. Because this is a contract position they are not allowed to work more than thirty hours a week. I would argue that this shows that this is not a living wage.
ThomPete 13y ago
The thing is that there are plenty of people who did everything you did and still didn't have any luck, just as there are people who did it the "right way" and still didn't luck out. You are 100% the creator of your own happiness, not your financial success in life.
cmiles74 13y ago
It's not clear to me how your life experience in Silicon Valley is at all comparable to the experience of the man in this story. You mention that he has a college degree and, in my opinion, imply that he should be doing better than he is. The article clearly states that he recently finished college (this semester) and has already moved on to full-time work. So he is doing better and has already left this part-time position. I couldn't find any reference to this man's interest in software development or administration in the text. Minimum wage was still insufficient for this person to support themselves and their family without supplementing with a food pantry. I suspect that in 1999, this was also the case. Further, the point is also made that this large and wealthy company is saving money by dividing their workforce into two classes: employees and contractors. Certainly this is nothing new but it is an important point, for instance, below is an article about how Amazon is agressively hiring more and more contractors. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/01/week-amazon-insider-feature-treatment-employees-work http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/01/week-amazo... I don't really believe you were trying to say that anyone with sufficient drive can be a CEO with a seven figure salary, but that is how it came off. Clearly there are not enough CEO positions for everyone that would like one, regardless of their skills or credentials.
astral303 13y ago
Inflation-adjusted 1999 $15 is $20.98 today. Conversely, today's $15/hr is $10.72/hr in 1999 dollars. Also note that he's not allowed to work over 30 hours, so even at a somewhat comparative actual rate, he has an upper limit on weekly income.
MattGrommes 13y ago
The article did say he was going to work at a non-profit. This article could have come just as he starts to work his way up.

grecy 13y ago

> things were miserable in the Valley--and my salary as a developer was still only $49,500/year then. You were making $50k - (in 2001?) - that's $65k in 2012 dollars. This guy is making $16,800 ($1,400/mo). That's 4 times less than you were, and you think you're comparable?

ericabiz 13y ago
I started out doing desktop support for $15/hour. (I actually think I started out making less, but I'm not sure how much "less" was--perhaps $12/hour? so I quoted the higher number.) $49,500/year was after I spent over a year learning development, and our startup got bought out by a huge company, and I interviewed into a role at the big company as a developer. I also started out working for a subcontractor, much like Manny in the article. Indeed, I do think it's comparable. Manny also has lower expenses than I did, since he lives with his mom, and in a traditional way of looking at things, he has more "opportunities" open to him since he has a college degree and I was a dropout.
- grecy 13y ago
  > I started out doing desktop support for $15/hour. $15/hour * 40 hours a week * 52 weeks = $31k in 2001 dollars = $40,000 in 2012 dollars. That's still more that double Manny's income. > Manny also has lower expenses than I did, since he lives with his mom A person living on the streets has lower expenses than you too, but that doesn't mean it's by choice or a good thing.
  - ericabiz 13y ago
    I didn't work full-time when I started there. College student, remember? I didn't have a full-time gig until I dropped out of college in 2001. BigCo refused to bring on part-time workers, so I quit school and interviewed into the developer role, which was FT and necessitated me dropping out of school. Edited my previous post to reflect correct timeline: 1999: Moved to Valley; got a job doing desktop support at a startup 2000: Startup gets bought by BigCo 2001: BigCo says they won't hire PT employees. I quit school to take $49,500/yr FT dev job at BigCo 2002: Quit dev job and started working on my own stuff (I had paying customers for my company in 2001, but 2002 was when I finally quit and went into consulting and web hosting full time.)
    - schrodinger 13y ago
      Ok great, so become a developer to make more money. What if he doesn't want to be a developer? What if he doesn't have the talent to become one? Then he has no right to complain? Is being a developer more noble than being a security guard? You have to realize we're lucky to be talented in a field that pays really well.
- geogra4 13y ago
  Is the solution for everyone to be a developer? What would that world look like? The world still needs people to do jobs like security, burger flipping, and stocking shelves until everything is automated. It's not even necessarily the pay level that is exploitative. It's the lack of job security and benefits that was once commonplace when a large percentage of the workforce was union.
- 13y ago

stephencanon 13y ago

If you really want to pull yourself out of poverty and you’re very lucky, all doors can be open to you. Not everyone will be as lucky as you were.

ericabiz 13y ago
I'm genuinely curious as to why people believe that it is 100% up to "luck" that some people are successful and others are not. If it was "luck", wouldn't CEOs be evenly distributed amongst minorities, men, and women? Or at least per the population distribution? Or are white males just that much more "lucky" than women and minorities? If you think answering those questions is tough, you and I are on the same page--that's why I don't ascribe this to "luck."
- ThomPete 13y ago
  It's luck because plenty of people do exactly the same thing as you and me. Work hard, take what they can get, have ambition and yet still don't make it. If you want to see this in it's purest form look at music and art. Plenty of amazing hardworking musicians that will never make a dime. Plenty of hacks who will.
  - alexeisadeski3 13y ago
    Why do people always reference hard work? Ditch diggers work hard. Migrant farm laborers work hard. So what?
    - cmiles74 13y ago
      Hard work should have value and should be rewarded with a wage that one can live on. While the person in this article is living, they are still not earning enough to support themselves and their family without supplementing from a food pantry. Because this is a contract position they are not allowed to work more than thirty hours a week. I would argue that this shows that this is not a living wage.

ThomPete 13y ago

The thing is that there are plenty of people who did everything you did and still didn't have any luck, just as there are people who did it the "right way" and still didn't luck out. You are 100% the creator of your own happiness, not your financial success in life.

cmiles74 13y ago

It's not clear to me how your life experience in Silicon Valley is at all comparable to the experience of the man in this story. You mention that he has a college degree and, in my opinion, imply that he should be doing better than he is. The article clearly states that he recently finished college (this semester) and has already moved on to full-time work. So he is doing better and has already left this part-time position. I couldn't find any reference to this man's interest in software development or administration in the text. Minimum wage was still insufficient for this person to support themselves and their family without supplementing with a food pantry. I suspect that in 1999, this was also the case. Further, the point is also made that this large and wealthy company is saving money by dividing their workforce into two classes: employees and contractors. Certainly this is nothing new but it is an important point, for instance, below is an article about how Amazon is agressively hiring more and more contractors. http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/01/week-amazon-insider-feature-treatment-employees-work http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/01/week-amazo... I don't really believe you were trying to say that anyone with sufficient drive can be a CEO with a seven figure salary, but that is how it came off. Clearly there are not enough CEO positions for everyone that would like one, regardless of their skills or credentials.

astral303 13y ago

Inflation-adjusted 1999 $15 is $20.98 today. Conversely, today's $15/hr is $10.72/hr in 1999 dollars. Also note that he's not allowed to work over 30 hours, so even at a somewhat comparative actual rate, he has an upper limit on weekly income.

MattGrommes 13y ago

The article did say he was going to work at a non-profit. This article could have come just as he starts to work his way up.