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That's like, your opinion, man. But for real dude, ever heard of democracy? What if I don't agree with you and your bullshit ideas?

aaronem 13y ago
Then you should try actually arguing with them, for a change.
- williamcotton 13y ago
  Have you ever tried arguing with a religious fundamentalist? There's really no point.
  - williamcotton 13y ago
    Just love them, hug them, and keep them the fuck out of politics...
  - unethical_ban 13y ago
    every comment you have made in this conversation has been insult and dull sarcasm. no insight has been provided. I am no supporter of hellbanning, but I cannot fathom how, given this site's heavy use of moderation, you are still allowed to comment. I know I have made no friend from you with this, but I hope you reevaluate the content of future posts.
    - williamcotton 13y ago
      Dude, how can you even begin to argue when people just refuse to budge from this position of 'this is beyond our control now, you will just have to learn to live with it'?
      - kd0amg 13y ago
        Show how to control it.
        williamcotton 13y ago
        You're right. I'm being incredibly impatient. I'm being very disrespectful to the people on this forum who aren't Bitcoin zealots. I'm sorry for that and I owe you guys an apology. I've lost almost all respect for the industry and the members of this forum, but even that doesn't warrant my actions. But this Bitcoin madness is driving me fucking insane... and I'm letting fears of sedition and anarchistic revolution get to me. I should heed my own real life advice and just channel all of this energy in to storytelling... I'll get you bastards with a song and a smile! I really need to take a break from this forum...
williamcotton 13y ago
Again, I'm not going to apologize for my explicit rudeness when I'm faced with the implicit rudeness of the extreme arrogance of most BitCoin supporters. You people think you have it aaaaaall figured out and that no one has a right to interfere with 'the due process of nature'...
- deleted 13y ago
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- deleted 13y ago
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- Crito 13y ago
  > "You people think you have it aaaaaall figured out and that no one has a right to interfere with 'the due process of nature'..." I realize you've already tapped out of this conversation, but I think the root of this whole misunderstanding is right here. The other people you are talking to here are not saying that nobody has the right to stop bitcoin (or whatever crypto-currency may follow it). They are saying that nobody has the ability. That should be about as uncontroversial as stating that a democratic, non-draconian, society has no ability to eliminate the sale of cocaine. Pointing that out isn't saying that cocaine is a good thing or something that society should tolerate; it is just saying that society lacks the ability to prevent it.
  - williamcotton 13y ago
    There's a big difference here, and that's that there isn't a bunch of pro-cocaine conferences or cocaine start-ups getting funded by venture capital firms... But much like the coke heads I've known through out the years, you all have an overblown sense of self and can't seem to shut the fuck up and listen for a second... so maybe that's where you're coming from?
    - Crito 13y ago
      If you read the other comments I have made today, you'll see that I am not particularly "bullish" on bitcoin... Anyway, I don't think you have understood the comment you just responded to. My point is that you have crossed your "morality/right" and "capability" wires. Stating that "you cannot stop the cocaine trade" is not making a statement about the virtue of cocaine, or stating that pro-cocaine conferences or startups are a good idea. These are entirely orthogonal concepts. You can be very anti-cocaine while still recognizing that cocaine cannot be eliminated. In other words, if there were lots of pro-cocaine conferences and cocaine peddling startups, the statement "cocaine cannot be eliminated" would not be any less true. That statement is a statement about the nature of law enforcement in a free society; not a statement on the morality or virtues of cocaine.
jerf 13y ago
I better preface this with that despite being a libertarian, I don't back, believe in, or own BitCoin. (For that matter, despite also disagreeing somewhat with cstross here, I've also upvoted the article for being interesting; they are valid concerns.) In a way, BitCoin is a mathematical fact of the universe rather than an "idea for what society could choose to do". Not BitCoin specifically, but the general ideas it embodies. If BitCoin is long-term viable (which I personally doubt), or if anything like BitCoin is viable (which I consider somewhat likely, but not proved), it's going to be created. You're going to have to deal with the existence of it, and society is going to have to learn how to live in a universe in which it exists, just as you have to learn how to live in a universe with crime. It's too simple to just suppress out of existence. You don't really get a vote over BitCoin any more than you get a vote over murder. (You may choose to suppress it, but you're going to have to deal with the non-100% effectiveness of that choice somehow.) #include<my_first_paragraph>
- williamcotton 13y ago
  Pure unadulterated arrogance.
  - jerf 13y ago
    On what, the universe's part? True, it doesn't particularly care what you think, but you don't have much choice but to deal with it. Math simply is. If a cryptocurrency can be made to work, it will be made to work. Contrariwise, if it can't be made to work, it will collapse, no matter how vigorously BitCoin advocates yell the contrary. Again, I'm not the one making it this way. I still think collapse is the more likely outcome. I'm not lifting a finger to help or putting a single shiny penny into BitCoin or anything like it. I assume you're trying to reassure yourself that you can dismiss my statement as arrogance on my part, but I have nothing to be arrogant about here.
    - williamcotton 13y ago
      What if we unplug the Internet?
woodchuck64 13y ago
Non sequitur. The parent comment simply takes uncontroversial facts and follows them to conclusion. Solutions to the problems raised by Bitcoin are good solutions to other problems as well.

aaronem 13y ago

Then you should try actually arguing with them, for a change.

williamcotton 13y ago
Have you ever tried arguing with a religious fundamentalist? There's really no point.
- williamcotton 13y ago
  Just love them, hug them, and keep them the fuck out of politics...
- unethical_ban 13y ago
  every comment you have made in this conversation has been insult and dull sarcasm. no insight has been provided. I am no supporter of hellbanning, but I cannot fathom how, given this site's heavy use of moderation, you are still allowed to comment. I know I have made no friend from you with this, but I hope you reevaluate the content of future posts.
  - williamcotton 13y ago
    Dude, how can you even begin to argue when people just refuse to budge from this position of 'this is beyond our control now, you will just have to learn to live with it'?
    - kd0amg 13y ago
      Show how to control it.
      - williamcotton 13y ago
        You're right. I'm being incredibly impatient. I'm being very disrespectful to the people on this forum who aren't Bitcoin zealots. I'm sorry for that and I owe you guys an apology. I've lost almost all respect for the industry and the members of this forum, but even that doesn't warrant my actions. But this Bitcoin madness is driving me fucking insane... and I'm letting fears of sedition and anarchistic revolution get to me. I should heed my own real life advice and just channel all of this energy in to storytelling... I'll get you bastards with a song and a smile! I really need to take a break from this forum...

williamcotton 13y ago

Again, I'm not going to apologize for my explicit rudeness when I'm faced with the implicit rudeness of the extreme arrogance of most BitCoin supporters. You people think you have it aaaaaall figured out and that no one has a right to interfere with 'the due process of nature'...

deleted 13y ago
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deleted 13y ago
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Crito 13y ago
> "You people think you have it aaaaaall figured out and that no one has a right to interfere with 'the due process of nature'..." I realize you've already tapped out of this conversation, but I think the root of this whole misunderstanding is right here. The other people you are talking to here are not saying that nobody has the right to stop bitcoin (or whatever crypto-currency may follow it). They are saying that nobody has the ability. That should be about as uncontroversial as stating that a democratic, non-draconian, society has no ability to eliminate the sale of cocaine. Pointing that out isn't saying that cocaine is a good thing or something that society should tolerate; it is just saying that society lacks the ability to prevent it.
- williamcotton 13y ago
  There's a big difference here, and that's that there isn't a bunch of pro-cocaine conferences or cocaine start-ups getting funded by venture capital firms... But much like the coke heads I've known through out the years, you all have an overblown sense of self and can't seem to shut the fuck up and listen for a second... so maybe that's where you're coming from?
  - Crito 13y ago
    If you read the other comments I have made today, you'll see that I am not particularly "bullish" on bitcoin... Anyway, I don't think you have understood the comment you just responded to. My point is that you have crossed your "morality/right" and "capability" wires. Stating that "you cannot stop the cocaine trade" is not making a statement about the virtue of cocaine, or stating that pro-cocaine conferences or startups are a good idea. These are entirely orthogonal concepts. You can be very anti-cocaine while still recognizing that cocaine cannot be eliminated. In other words, if there were lots of pro-cocaine conferences and cocaine peddling startups, the statement "cocaine cannot be eliminated" would not be any less true. That statement is a statement about the nature of law enforcement in a free society; not a statement on the morality or virtues of cocaine.

jerf 13y ago

I better preface this with that despite being a libertarian, I don't back, believe in, or own BitCoin. (For that matter, despite also disagreeing somewhat with cstross here, I've also upvoted the article for being interesting; they are valid concerns.) In a way, BitCoin is a mathematical fact of the universe rather than an "idea for what society could choose to do". Not BitCoin specifically, but the general ideas it embodies. If BitCoin is long-term viable (which I personally doubt), or if anything like BitCoin is viable (which I consider somewhat likely, but not proved), it's going to be created. You're going to have to deal with the existence of it, and society is going to have to learn how to live in a universe in which it exists, just as you have to learn how to live in a universe with crime. It's too simple to just suppress out of existence. You don't really get a vote over BitCoin any more than you get a vote over murder. (You may choose to suppress it, but you're going to have to deal with the non-100% effectiveness of that choice somehow.) #include<my_first_paragraph>

williamcotton 13y ago
Pure unadulterated arrogance.
- jerf 13y ago
  On what, the universe's part? True, it doesn't particularly care what you think, but you don't have much choice but to deal with it. Math simply is. If a cryptocurrency can be made to work, it will be made to work. Contrariwise, if it can't be made to work, it will collapse, no matter how vigorously BitCoin advocates yell the contrary. Again, I'm not the one making it this way. I still think collapse is the more likely outcome. I'm not lifting a finger to help or putting a single shiny penny into BitCoin or anything like it. I assume you're trying to reassure yourself that you can dismiss my statement as arrogance on my part, but I have nothing to be arrogant about here.
  - williamcotton 13y ago
    What if we unplug the Internet?

woodchuck64 13y ago

Non sequitur. The parent comment simply takes uncontroversial facts and follows them to conclusion. Solutions to the problems raised by Bitcoin are good solutions to other problems as well.