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When can I actually use Bitcoin as a currency rather than a speculative investment asset? That's when I want to buy Bitcoin.

CryptoJunky 13y ago
I can and do for many things. Just loaded my namecheap account last night with some more funds, for instance.
salient 13y ago
When it's 30+ percent of the world's transactions? Its market cap needs to be worth trillions before a highly stable price is established. When Bitcoin is truly mainstream and your grandma and grandpa will be having Bitcoin, and don't "panic sell" at every Bitcoin news, it's when Bitcoin's price will be stable. Right now the market is full of people who buy and sell Bitcoin based on the latest news. Those people need to represent a tiny percentage of Bitcoin's market cap before volatility decreases drastically. Of course, when that happens, you shouldn't have major news like "China bans Bitcoin" anymore, since if so many people are using it, then you can assume the legal stuff has already been settled long ago, and most countries are using it, and won't ban it overnight anymore.
robinhoode 13y ago
Bitcoin will be stable as soon as everyone considers it too boring to write about.
guard-of-terra 13y ago
What is "currency" for you? People refer to "currency" all the time as if it was one thing. Cash is one kind of currency, plastic is another, bank account - yet another, savings - yet another. Converting between those is not instant and not free. Bitcoin works OK as a bank account. That is "currency".
- collyw 13y ago
  I always thought that Dollars / Euros / Pounds were currencies. The card / cash /bank account are mediums tro represent those currencies. (Now that I have tried putting this into words, I see the whole concept of money / currency is more ambiguous than I originally thought. )
- vkou 13y ago
  Something meaningful assets are priced in. I can go to Europe, and buy things that have fixed Euro prices, with Euros. It's possible because the entire Eurozone economy backs the Euro. No such thing exists for BTC. And no, buying something priced in USD, but having the option to pay for it in BTC doesn't count. At that point, I'm just speculating.
  - guard-of-terra 13y ago
    You are talking about day-to-day spendings. I don't understand why fixate on them. They are a very tiny blip in most people's finances. I manage to live most ordinary days of my life without spending any currency. What I care about is raking together money for realty, and otherwise preserving money for the day when I need them. This is where bitcoin is a viable addition.
    - vkou 13y ago
      My rent, my car bills, and my groceries aren't a tiny blip in my finances. So far, none of them have a fixed bitcoin price. I mean, I suppose I could do the hip thing and live in a homeless hackspace, but I don't think that would be considered normal. Also, it's bit cold for that outside the Valley.
      - guard-of-terra 13y ago
        I don't pay my rent and groceries with my savings. I pay them from my salary. And savings I save.
    - bushido 13y ago
      You really seem to fail to grasp the difference between a currency (store of value) and a speculative investment (in hopes to beat inflation or exponential returns). Let's make your chain of thought a bit more entertaining, How much of your traditional currency savings (in percentage) are you confident to convert to BTC?
      - 13y ago
- bushido 13y ago
  Converting between Cash, Bank and Plastic(Credit Cards) IS near instantaneous. It may not be free but the speediness hasn't really been in question. Also these are all instruments that store value, but are all different instruments. Though Bitcoin is NOT yet a currency. It cannot store value, the volatility ensures that. An example to illustrate: Part I: Cash - Bank etc. If I have $2000 in Cash, Credit Card has a balance of $1000 (maxed out) and $0 in my Checking/Chequing/Savings account (bank). I can visit a branch that's 10 mins away, and deposit the all the money, total wait time would be < 5 mins. (transaction cost free) I can immediately go to an ATM and withdraw $500. (transaction cost free - $0.30) After that I can walk back to my home and access all the $1500, this can be: a) $500 transferred from account to high yield savings account. (transaction cost free) b) $500 transferred to grand parents using interac (transaction cost free - $1.00) c) $500 transferred to credit card (transaction cost free) - Note: (i) Credit cards can take up to 3 days to reflect the payment (ii) Credit Cards will consider the original transaction date as the payment date thus not incurring interest for the delay in reflecting the payment and (iii) some credit card issuers will let you make a transaction before the payment is reflected thus reducing the unfortunate "Check kiting"[1] nature of the delay in reflecting the transaction. Part II: Cash - Bitcoin - Cash Will not go into explaining this in detail, but just answer this 1) Can you take cash and transfer it to bitcoin without using the bank? 2) Will it be nearly as quick converting between instruments as traditional stores of value? 3) In a day or two when you want to make a purchase can you guarantee or even confidently assume that the value will be the same as when you deposited it? Hell can you assure yourself that the value will be the same < 1 hour from when the transaction occurs? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_kiting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_kiting
  - guard-of-terra 13y ago
    1) Can you take cash and transfer it to bitcoin without using the bank? 2) Will it be nearly as quick converting between instruments as traditional stores of value? Yes, I can take my cash, dump it into Qiwi machine and btc-e accepts that. It will be faster because Qiwi machines are denser than bank branches. 3) In a day or two when you want to make a purchase can you guarantee or even confidently assume that the value will be the same as when you deposited it? No, but neither it is with your currency. Hell can you assure yourself that the value will be the same < 1 hour from when the transaction occurs? Why are we again talking about day-to-day spending? I don't care about the value in one hour, I care about value in one year and Bitcoin shows pretty good performance. It's more reliable than USD/EUR and USD/RUR swing, believe it or not.

CryptoJunky 13y ago

I can and do for many things. Just loaded my namecheap account last night with some more funds, for instance.

salient 13y ago

When it's 30+ percent of the world's transactions? Its market cap needs to be worth trillions before a highly stable price is established. When Bitcoin is truly mainstream and your grandma and grandpa will be having Bitcoin, and don't "panic sell" at every Bitcoin news, it's when Bitcoin's price will be stable. Right now the market is full of people who buy and sell Bitcoin based on the latest news. Those people need to represent a tiny percentage of Bitcoin's market cap before volatility decreases drastically. Of course, when that happens, you shouldn't have major news like "China bans Bitcoin" anymore, since if so many people are using it, then you can assume the legal stuff has already been settled long ago, and most countries are using it, and won't ban it overnight anymore.

robinhoode 13y ago

Bitcoin will be stable as soon as everyone considers it too boring to write about.

guard-of-terra 13y ago

What is "currency" for you? People refer to "currency" all the time as if it was one thing. Cash is one kind of currency, plastic is another, bank account - yet another, savings - yet another. Converting between those is not instant and not free. Bitcoin works OK as a bank account. That is "currency".

collyw 13y ago
I always thought that Dollars / Euros / Pounds were currencies. The card / cash /bank account are mediums tro represent those currencies. (Now that I have tried putting this into words, I see the whole concept of money / currency is more ambiguous than I originally thought. )
vkou 13y ago
Something meaningful assets are priced in. I can go to Europe, and buy things that have fixed Euro prices, with Euros. It's possible because the entire Eurozone economy backs the Euro. No such thing exists for BTC. And no, buying something priced in USD, but having the option to pay for it in BTC doesn't count. At that point, I'm just speculating.
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  You are talking about day-to-day spendings. I don't understand why fixate on them. They are a very tiny blip in most people's finances. I manage to live most ordinary days of my life without spending any currency. What I care about is raking together money for realty, and otherwise preserving money for the day when I need them. This is where bitcoin is a viable addition.
  - vkou 13y ago
    My rent, my car bills, and my groceries aren't a tiny blip in my finances. So far, none of them have a fixed bitcoin price. I mean, I suppose I could do the hip thing and live in a homeless hackspace, but I don't think that would be considered normal. Also, it's bit cold for that outside the Valley.
    - guard-of-terra 13y ago
      I don't pay my rent and groceries with my savings. I pay them from my salary. And savings I save.
  - bushido 13y ago
    You really seem to fail to grasp the difference between a currency (store of value) and a speculative investment (in hopes to beat inflation or exponential returns). Let's make your chain of thought a bit more entertaining, How much of your traditional currency savings (in percentage) are you confident to convert to BTC?
    - 13y ago
bushido 13y ago
Converting between Cash, Bank and Plastic(Credit Cards) IS near instantaneous. It may not be free but the speediness hasn't really been in question. Also these are all instruments that store value, but are all different instruments. Though Bitcoin is NOT yet a currency. It cannot store value, the volatility ensures that. An example to illustrate: Part I: Cash - Bank etc. If I have $2000 in Cash, Credit Card has a balance of $1000 (maxed out) and $0 in my Checking/Chequing/Savings account (bank). I can visit a branch that's 10 mins away, and deposit the all the money, total wait time would be < 5 mins. (transaction cost free) I can immediately go to an ATM and withdraw $500. (transaction cost free - $0.30) After that I can walk back to my home and access all the $1500, this can be: a) $500 transferred from account to high yield savings account. (transaction cost free) b) $500 transferred to grand parents using interac (transaction cost free - $1.00) c) $500 transferred to credit card (transaction cost free) - Note: (i) Credit cards can take up to 3 days to reflect the payment (ii) Credit Cards will consider the original transaction date as the payment date thus not incurring interest for the delay in reflecting the payment and (iii) some credit card issuers will let you make a transaction before the payment is reflected thus reducing the unfortunate "Check kiting"[1] nature of the delay in reflecting the transaction. Part II: Cash - Bitcoin - Cash Will not go into explaining this in detail, but just answer this 1) Can you take cash and transfer it to bitcoin without using the bank? 2) Will it be nearly as quick converting between instruments as traditional stores of value? 3) In a day or two when you want to make a purchase can you guarantee or even confidently assume that the value will be the same as when you deposited it? Hell can you assure yourself that the value will be the same < 1 hour from when the transaction occurs? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_kiting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_kiting
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  1) Can you take cash and transfer it to bitcoin without using the bank? 2) Will it be nearly as quick converting between instruments as traditional stores of value? Yes, I can take my cash, dump it into Qiwi machine and btc-e accepts that. It will be faster because Qiwi machines are denser than bank branches. 3) In a day or two when you want to make a purchase can you guarantee or even confidently assume that the value will be the same as when you deposited it? No, but neither it is with your currency. Hell can you assure yourself that the value will be the same < 1 hour from when the transaction occurs? Why are we again talking about day-to-day spending? I don't care about the value in one hour, I care about value in one year and Bitcoin shows pretty good performance. It's more reliable than USD/EUR and USD/RUR swing, believe it or not.