4 ms·

Maybe I'm cynical, but I think that's part of the Apple treadmill to keep people buying new devices. iOS 7 is written for the new hardware (as it should be), a

Maybe I'm cynical, but I think that's part of the Apple treadmill to keep people buying new devices. iOS 7 is written for the new hardware (as it should be), and not fully optimized for older devices because they want people to buy new ones. I have a 5 year-old laptop that works perfectly for my purposes, but I'll probably have to buy a new one just so I can run Xcode 5, and the only reason I can't run Xcode 5 is because it won't run Mountain Lion / Mavericks. Even then, that's only because Apple won't optimize Mavericks for the GPU on my machine - the same laptop can run Windows 8.1 just fine.

InTheSwiss 13y ago
You are not being cynical, that is exactly what Apple is doing and always has done. They set a limit on how far back they support older products regardless of if they are technically able to do whatever is needed. Whether doing so is right or wrong is up to the individual to decide. Apple do not keep it a secret or advertise that whatever you buy today will be supported by their newer software in a couple of years. You buy the product as is today.
- corin_ 13y ago
  Off-topic note: you can be cynical and correct at the same time.
- freeman478 13y ago
  In spite of this bad behavior, Apple is still the best at supporting old devices with OS updates. http://www.fidlee.com/android-support-vs-ios-support/ http://www.fidlee.com/android-support-vs-ios-support/ So Apple is the best at this but they are still the bad guys or just the less worse ?
  - makomk 13y ago
    Except that a lot of sensible people don't install the final updates for any given Apple iDevice that's going out of support, because it's often so slow as to make the device unusable and Apple have got strong anti-downgrade protections that stop anyone from rolling back to the previous version. Nice bit of forced obsolescence.
    - InTheSwiss 13y ago
      Running iOS 7 on my partners iPad 2 is fine. The biggest performance issues with it are websites that are more and more complex than just a few years ago when she got the iPad. They lag like hell. I understand why Apple makes downgrading so difficult but I agree it is a real pain in the ass and wish it was simple to do.
      - makomk 13y ago
        It'd be pretty terrible if it didn't run properly on there, since as far as I can tell Apple are still making and selling the iPad 2. I'd be curious how the iPad 3 is doing since that was discontinued a year or so ago.
sbuk 13y ago
Can I ask, purely out of curiosity, which MacBook you have?
- adrianoconnor 13y ago
  I'm not OP, but I think it has got to be the white MacBook with the Intel X3100 graphics. Out of interest, I bought my wife the first aluminium MacBook that would have been released on the same day as his laptop, and that does support Mavericks (because it has Nvidia 9400M graphics, which the next year's white MacBook then also got). It's a shame those old white Macs (including white C2D iMacs) don't support Mavericks, because they are 64-bit capable and generally still reasonable machines. But support has to stop somewhere, I guess, and I wouldn't like to be the person writing the 64-bit firmware and drivers for those machines, 6 years later. Also, most of them have got dodgy GPUs thanks to a combination of poor Nvidia parts and all-in-one/ultra-slim designs that got clogged up with dust. FWIW, if you're programming for the AppStore (i.e, using these as a professional tool), 5 years of life out of a laptop is actually pretty good (IMVHO). I get at least three years of use out of my Macs (currently on a Nov 2010 MBA) before I start thinking about upgrading/replacing, but that's still going strong.
  - sbuk 13y ago
    That's what I initially thought. I was under the impression that the lack of support was down to OpenCL.
- SyneRyder 13y ago
  Adrian was almost correct: I have a Black MacBook 3,1 (not white!), which has the X3100 GPU and a 64-bit 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo. I've upgraded it to 6GB RAM, 1TB Drive, brand new battery, and even considered swapping out the CD drive to add an SSD. It's more than a match for a brand new MacBook Air. I installed Mountain Lion today on it by using MLPostFactor, so my own crisis is resolved... but it also shows that the machine is completely capable of running Mountain Lion. The only thing stopping it is Apple (and a lack of 64-bit X3100 drivers).
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
bruceboughton 13y ago
I have a 2007 iMac and it is still a better computer than any other desktop I've ever had. It can't run the latest OS X releases but it got more releases than I expected. You can't magically make older devices support newer features, especially in a market that has evolved as much as mobile.
cmelbye 13y ago
No need to buy a new device if you don't want to upgrade because you don't think iOS 7 will work well on yours. iOS 6 still works, and it's possible to download an older version of an app if the latest version isn't compatible.
- makomk 13y ago
  If there is an older version of the app. I was just looking at a Kickstarter project the other day that predates iOS 7 but only ever released their app for it (can't remember which one) and there were a lot of pissed off iOS 6 users in the comments section who can't or don't want to upgrade.
chrisdevereux 13y ago
This provides some additional support for your cynicism (and may also be useful to you): http://lifehacker.com/5994204/mlpostfactor-installs-mountain-lion-on-older-macs http://lifehacker.com/5994204/mlpostfactor-installs-mountain... I have a (slightly) less cynical interpretation, which is that they have a finite amount of engineering time and would rather use it developing new products than supporting old ones (or increasing capacity at the risk of lowering focus/quality). It's probably not a coincidence that developing new products makes more $$ than supporting old ones.
- SyneRyder 13y ago
  Thanks! I found out about MLPostFactor last night, and was able to install a hacked Mountain Lion on my machine today. I've only tested it for an hour, but it seems to work really well so far, no problems with graphics, even in the OpenGL app I tested. Helps me delay my laptop upgrade & stick with the laptop I really like (wish Apple made black MacBooks again). Thanks so much!

InTheSwiss 13y ago

You are not being cynical, that is exactly what Apple is doing and always has done. They set a limit on how far back they support older products regardless of if they are technically able to do whatever is needed. Whether doing so is right or wrong is up to the individual to decide. Apple do not keep it a secret or advertise that whatever you buy today will be supported by their newer software in a couple of years. You buy the product as is today.

corin_ 13y ago
Off-topic note: you can be cynical and correct at the same time.
freeman478 13y ago
In spite of this bad behavior, Apple is still the best at supporting old devices with OS updates. http://www.fidlee.com/android-support-vs-ios-support/ http://www.fidlee.com/android-support-vs-ios-support/ So Apple is the best at this but they are still the bad guys or just the less worse ?
- makomk 13y ago
  Except that a lot of sensible people don't install the final updates for any given Apple iDevice that's going out of support, because it's often so slow as to make the device unusable and Apple have got strong anti-downgrade protections that stop anyone from rolling back to the previous version. Nice bit of forced obsolescence.
  - InTheSwiss 13y ago
    Running iOS 7 on my partners iPad 2 is fine. The biggest performance issues with it are websites that are more and more complex than just a few years ago when she got the iPad. They lag like hell. I understand why Apple makes downgrading so difficult but I agree it is a real pain in the ass and wish it was simple to do.
    - makomk 13y ago
      It'd be pretty terrible if it didn't run properly on there, since as far as I can tell Apple are still making and selling the iPad 2. I'd be curious how the iPad 3 is doing since that was discontinued a year or so ago.

sbuk 13y ago

Can I ask, purely out of curiosity, which MacBook you have?

adrianoconnor 13y ago
I'm not OP, but I think it has got to be the white MacBook with the Intel X3100 graphics. Out of interest, I bought my wife the first aluminium MacBook that would have been released on the same day as his laptop, and that does support Mavericks (because it has Nvidia 9400M graphics, which the next year's white MacBook then also got). It's a shame those old white Macs (including white C2D iMacs) don't support Mavericks, because they are 64-bit capable and generally still reasonable machines. But support has to stop somewhere, I guess, and I wouldn't like to be the person writing the 64-bit firmware and drivers for those machines, 6 years later. Also, most of them have got dodgy GPUs thanks to a combination of poor Nvidia parts and all-in-one/ultra-slim designs that got clogged up with dust. FWIW, if you're programming for the AppStore (i.e, using these as a professional tool), 5 years of life out of a laptop is actually pretty good (IMVHO). I get at least three years of use out of my Macs (currently on a Nov 2010 MBA) before I start thinking about upgrading/replacing, but that's still going strong.
- sbuk 13y ago
  That's what I initially thought. I was under the impression that the lack of support was down to OpenCL.
SyneRyder 13y ago
Adrian was almost correct: I have a Black MacBook 3,1 (not white!), which has the X3100 GPU and a 64-bit 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo. I've upgraded it to 6GB RAM, 1TB Drive, brand new battery, and even considered swapping out the CD drive to add an SSD. It's more than a match for a brand new MacBook Air. I installed Mountain Lion today on it by using MLPostFactor, so my own crisis is resolved... but it also shows that the machine is completely capable of running Mountain Lion. The only thing stopping it is Apple (and a lack of 64-bit X3100 drivers).

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

bruceboughton 13y ago

I have a 2007 iMac and it is still a better computer than any other desktop I've ever had. It can't run the latest OS X releases but it got more releases than I expected. You can't magically make older devices support newer features, especially in a market that has evolved as much as mobile.

cmelbye 13y ago

No need to buy a new device if you don't want to upgrade because you don't think iOS 7 will work well on yours. iOS 6 still works, and it's possible to download an older version of an app if the latest version isn't compatible.

makomk 13y ago
If there is an older version of the app. I was just looking at a Kickstarter project the other day that predates iOS 7 but only ever released their app for it (can't remember which one) and there were a lot of pissed off iOS 6 users in the comments section who can't or don't want to upgrade.

chrisdevereux 13y ago

This provides some additional support for your cynicism (and may also be useful to you): http://lifehacker.com/5994204/mlpostfactor-installs-mountain-lion-on-older-macs http://lifehacker.com/5994204/mlpostfactor-installs-mountain... I have a (slightly) less cynical interpretation, which is that they have a finite amount of engineering time and would rather use it developing new products than supporting old ones (or increasing capacity at the risk of lowering focus/quality). It's probably not a coincidence that developing new products makes more $$ than supporting old ones.

SyneRyder 13y ago
Thanks! I found out about MLPostFactor last night, and was able to install a hacked Mountain Lion on my machine today. I've only tested it for an hour, but it seems to work really well so far, no problems with graphics, even in the OpenGL app I tested. Helps me delay my laptop upgrade & stick with the laptop I really like (wish Apple made black MacBooks again). Thanks so much!