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Please provide a better drop-in alternative or shut up seriously. SQL is single master and is pain in the ass for many applications. Cassandra didn't happen to

Please provide a better drop-in alternative or shut up seriously. SQL is single master and is pain in the ass for many applications. Cassandra didn't happen to work for us. CouchWhatever failed to ever get off ground. Redis - can't say anything about it. That leaves us with what? Yes, mongodb fails but only after it delivers. Other nosql databases don't get into the delivery phase. What's there to choose?

gaius 13y ago
SQL is a language, not a database...
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  All SQL databases share several traits.
  - gaius 13y ago
    Being single-master isn't one of them.
    - guard-of-terra 13y ago
      Being single master without paying extraordinary sums, staffing wizards or both - is. That is baked into SQL. I only care about pragmatics.
      - gaius 13y ago
        Here you go, for free http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/mysql-cluster-replication-multi-master.html http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/mysql-cluster-replica...
        guard-of-terra 13y ago
        Mongodb is 'free' too. Does not mean it will work for you in production. Mongodb does for us. Do we have a half year to figure whether mysql would? No we don't, and it probably won't meet our expectations anyway.
SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
> Please provide a better drop-in alternative or shut up seriously. He mentioned several. He talked about why he prefers them.
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  Maybe he should have written a first article on how they are fantastic for his real-life tasks instead of 100th article on how mongodb is bad despite being really used. All tree of his recommendations strike me as key-value storage. Key-value storage is both easy to write and not very useful in production. I don't know how much meat they provide over mere key value, but allow me to be wary.
  - notacoward 13y ago
    None of the three are just key/value. Cassandra is a BigTable-like wide column store, and Riak is a document store with some graph capabilities. HyperDex seems closest to Redis with lists/maps/sets, except that it's distributed and fully consistent (i.e. what Redis could dream of being some day). None of those are easy to write, and many people already find them quite useful in production. Stop being flat-out wrong about everything, and do some research.
notacoward 13y ago
The author and I are hardly best of friends, but he does deserve credit as co-creator of http://hyperdex.org/ http://hyperdex.org/ which seems to be a completely credible entry in the NoSQL space. Demanding an exact drop-in replacement is unreasonable. He has come close enough, and contributed to the state of the art in the same field. You're being an ass.
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  As an author of Hyperdex it seems unethical for him to go bash competition.
  - notacoward 13y ago
    Well, that's a tricky one. In some ways he has a duty to explain what makes his own project useful and different. That often involves making comparisons to others. All of us in the same or related fields (including me) also have a duty to educate users about tradeoffs and especially about those that can endanger their data, and that often involves using "less stellar" systems as examples. Unfortunately, there are many who take the comparisons or examples too far, either by making claims that aren't quite true or by "piling on" about things that are already well known. The punishment should be proportional to the crime, and I think there are some who would impose the death penalty for jaywalking. At least half of the sniping from the Riak camp about Cassandra's consistency falls into this category. While some criticism of Mongo is well deserved, at least as much is overkill and far more is just crowd-following by people who don't even understand the issues. The OP is one of these extremists ("data radical" is his own term). In fact, the reason he and I aren't such good friends is that we disagreed quite sharply about some of the FUD he was slinging to promote his own project. http://pl.atyp.us/wordpress/index.php/2013/03/is-eventual-consistency-useful/ http://pl.atyp.us/wordpress/index.php/2013/03/is-eventual-co... I don't think it's unethical for people to criticize related work. In fact, such criticism can be very useful. Many of my own contributions to GlusterFS have been inspired by these discussions, sometimes even about other projects. The key is to keep criticism factual and relevant to some point other that "that project sucks", to avoid piling on, and to offer occasional praise as well as condemnation. Also, you originally condemned him for criticizing without having contributed an alternative. Now you're condemning him for criticizing when he has. What are the ethics of setting up such a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation?

gaius 13y ago

SQL is a language, not a database...

guard-of-terra 13y ago
All SQL databases share several traits.
- gaius 13y ago
  Being single-master isn't one of them.
  - guard-of-terra 13y ago
    Being single master without paying extraordinary sums, staffing wizards or both - is. That is baked into SQL. I only care about pragmatics.
    - gaius 13y ago
      Here you go, for free http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/mysql-cluster-replication-multi-master.html http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/mysql-cluster-replica...
      - guard-of-terra 13y ago
        Mongodb is 'free' too. Does not mean it will work for you in production. Mongodb does for us. Do we have a half year to figure whether mysql would? No we don't, and it probably won't meet our expectations anyway.

SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago

> Please provide a better drop-in alternative or shut up seriously. He mentioned several. He talked about why he prefers them.

guard-of-terra 13y ago
Maybe he should have written a first article on how they are fantastic for his real-life tasks instead of 100th article on how mongodb is bad despite being really used. All tree of his recommendations strike me as key-value storage. Key-value storage is both easy to write and not very useful in production. I don't know how much meat they provide over mere key value, but allow me to be wary.
- notacoward 13y ago
  None of the three are just key/value. Cassandra is a BigTable-like wide column store, and Riak is a document store with some graph capabilities. HyperDex seems closest to Redis with lists/maps/sets, except that it's distributed and fully consistent (i.e. what Redis could dream of being some day). None of those are easy to write, and many people already find them quite useful in production. Stop being flat-out wrong about everything, and do some research.

notacoward 13y ago

The author and I are hardly best of friends, but he does deserve credit as co-creator of http://hyperdex.org/ http://hyperdex.org/ which seems to be a completely credible entry in the NoSQL space. Demanding an exact drop-in replacement is unreasonable. He has come close enough, and contributed to the state of the art in the same field. You're being an ass.

guard-of-terra 13y ago
As an author of Hyperdex it seems unethical for him to go bash competition.
- notacoward 13y ago
  Well, that's a tricky one. In some ways he has a duty to explain what makes his own project useful and different. That often involves making comparisons to others. All of us in the same or related fields (including me) also have a duty to educate users about tradeoffs and especially about those that can endanger their data, and that often involves using "less stellar" systems as examples. Unfortunately, there are many who take the comparisons or examples too far, either by making claims that aren't quite true or by "piling on" about things that are already well known. The punishment should be proportional to the crime, and I think there are some who would impose the death penalty for jaywalking. At least half of the sniping from the Riak camp about Cassandra's consistency falls into this category. While some criticism of Mongo is well deserved, at least as much is overkill and far more is just crowd-following by people who don't even understand the issues. The OP is one of these extremists ("data radical" is his own term). In fact, the reason he and I aren't such good friends is that we disagreed quite sharply about some of the FUD he was slinging to promote his own project. http://pl.atyp.us/wordpress/index.php/2013/03/is-eventual-consistency-useful/ http://pl.atyp.us/wordpress/index.php/2013/03/is-eventual-co... I don't think it's unethical for people to criticize related work. In fact, such criticism can be very useful. Many of my own contributions to GlusterFS have been inspired by these discussions, sometimes even about other projects. The key is to keep criticism factual and relevant to some point other that "that project sucks", to avoid piling on, and to offer occasional praise as well as condemnation. Also, you originally condemned him for criticizing without having contributed an alternative. Now you're condemning him for criticizing when he has. What are the ethics of setting up such a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation?