7 ms·

Fungus threatens top banana

40 points by tokenadult 13y ago

guard-of-terra 13y ago
It's kind of humiliating that we the great sentient race can't protect our bananas from some lowly fungus. I think we should get our act together. We've already lost a few rounds.
- CatMtKing 13y ago
  Well if we create a big enough niche by growing a very specific cultivar, something's going to fill it.
logfromblammo 13y ago
We've known this could happen for decades, just due to the way bananas are propagated. The same thing happened to the Gros Michel cultivar in the 1950s. Plantations will have to scramble to get up to speed on a new cultivar, and some people will go bankrupt. It's even the same species of fungus. Back then they called it Panama Disease. But now we have genetic technology. This fungal disease may spell the end of non-GMO bananas in supermarkets. If there were another natural cultivar resistant to the latest strain of the fungus, it would already be in use. It was a stroke of luck that they even found the Cavendish before bananas disappeared entirely from the food supply.
- sp332 13y ago
  If the genetic engineering works out, can we go back to the Gros Michel cultivar? They were sweeter and much bigger than Cavendish. Edit: The article mentions that the wild Asian banana Musa acuminata malaccensis seems to be resistant, but I'm betting they're small and/or not very tasty. Edit2: aw man, this is addressed right at the bottom of the article. "For his part, Dale is trying to engineer Gros Michel bananas for resistance to the original Foc strain."
  - pkulak 13y ago
    Isn't the main benefit to Cavendish that it transports really well?
- mathattack 13y ago
  Wow - So are you saying this is a case for GMO (create a resistant banana) or against it (for killing biodiversity)? It's a shame because bananas are very cheap. On the one hand they're cheap enough to double in cost and many can handle it. On the other hand, they're a cheap staple for low income folks.
  - pygy_ 13y ago
    There's no biodiversity in bananas. All Cavendish plants are sterile genetic clones. It was the same for Gros Michel. Edit: what more, GMO are not inherently bad. Monsanto gave them a bad name, because of their commercial practice (terminator gene), and the catastrophic environmental consequences of glyphosate-resistant crops. They can be used wisely. For example, did you know that the insulin diabetics use is produced by GM yeast?
    - jurjenh 13y ago
      Yes, but that's not the only way bananas propagate. The fruit is how genetic variability gets introduced, but they also develop shoots from the root system, which eventually grow into trees themselves. I believe traditionally bananas are grown as the main trunk, then 2 baby shoots at differing maturity. Once the main stem has fruited, it is removed and the next one takes over, at which point another shoot is allowed to develop. The extra shoots that are removed can be used to start another "family" elsewhere, but has the risk of spreading disease. These days tissue culturing is used, with a much lower risk of spreading disease.
      - pygy_ 13y ago
        Offshoots are non-artificial clones. They are genetically identical to the main stem... It's just the same plant.
        mathattack 13y ago
        I'm impressed with the bananaknowledge here. Is there a limited amount of times you can do this?
lutorm 13y ago
"something killed our huge monoculture, so we replaced it with another huge monoculture, and now something's killing it!" Is it really so surprising?
- jurjenh 13y ago
  The problem here being that "normal" bananas have seeds in them, and the Cavendish and Gros Michel are specific hybrids that don't - so the only way to propagate is essentially cloning them (take a cutting and grow it) - lots and lots of identical plants. Going back to a more "natural" system would involve a lot of variation in fruit crops, which means handling and processing costs would go up tremendously, likely leading to the same result: no bananas for most people. One of the more sustainable solutions is to eat local - food that is locally grown, thus suited for your environment. However, this means that all those in temperate climates will (eventually) need to forgo tropical fruits... or grow them in glasshouses. Not sure what the best approach would be here, but I'm fortunate enough to be in an area where you can grow bananas - so I'm trying my luck (Auckland, New Zealand)
  - mathattack 13y ago
    Bananas are cheap enough that many of us can afford a 2x or 3x cost increase easier than with other fruits. What's so bad about banana seeds? Are they hard like in grapes?
    - jurjenh 13y ago
      They look much more like passionfruit, but with more solid fleshy material. I think the seeds are hard and inedible, but haven't ever seen them in real life... Also the cultivated ones have been developed specifically for their transportability and shelf life, with the taste as a lower priority. Hmmm... wonder what those Gros Michel taste like? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana
      - mathattack 13y ago
dmazin 13y ago
Is that an Arrested Development reference?
- michaelochurch 13y ago
  There's always fungus in the banana stand!
IvyMike 13y ago
The apple guys (the fruit not the tech) have been able to market a variety of cultivars quite successfully. Even the tomato guys are doing good work with the whole "heirloom" thing. I don't get why the banana guys don't try the same thing. Edit: There are already a bunch of cultivars out there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banana_cultivars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banana_cultivars And according to this poster, bananas mutate quite easily, so there are actually a huge number of variants out there: http://www.fruitlovers.com/BananaPoster.jpg http://www.fruitlovers.com/BananaPoster.jpg Yeah, most of these bananas aren't great for eatin' but surely we made a good banana once, we can do it again. And if you think hipsters wouldn't pay more for a unique "artisanal heirloom banana" then you don't shop at the Whole Foods down the street from me because those dudes would be all over it like fungus on a Cavendish. C'mon banana hackers. We need you now more than ever.
- Kronopath 13y ago
  The difference is that bananas are all genetically identical, leaving them much more susceptible to disease. Commercial banana plants are sterile and must be bred by grafting, which isn't the case with apples (to my knowledge). https://www.commondreams.org/views03/0719-02.htm https://www.commondreams.org/views03/0719-02.htm
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    Apples don't breed true, so all the store varieties are clones. The difference is probably more because desirable fruit apples have viable seeds (so it's easier to grow an orchard and just see what tastes good).
- ajross 13y ago
  You can't breed a banana. The species can't sexually reproduce, so all plants are essentially clones. This makes the production of new breeds very slow (you can't cross-breed to isolate desired traits) and means that when a novel disease arrives, no individual plants will have any immunity.
  - 13y ago
jrkelly 13y ago
If GMOs can get a win with this, citrus greening disease in oranges, or vitamin A-fortified "golden" rice it will be a big deal for public acceptance of the technology.
state 13y ago
Not to diminish the downsides of this, but I really can't get enough of the wide variety of tiny bananas I get to eat when in Asia. You can find them occasionally here in the US, but they seem low on the import priority list. Wouldn't mind seeing more diversity in the banana department. There's a whole world of deliciousness we rarely see.
- ArbitraryLimits 13y ago
  None of them handle all of: being picked early, being shipped, sitting in a supermarket display, and being bagged. That's why there's only one cultivar in US supermarkets in the first place.
  - state 13y ago
    Of course! Makes sense. Good point.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > That's why there's only one cultivar in US supermarkets in the first place. Well, except that I've been in several US supermarkets with more than one cultivar. (I think red and apple bananas are the most common non-Cavendish ones, excluding plantains, I've seen.)
drakaal 13y ago
Bananas are basically all clones (Seedless and all that) This makes the risk very high for such things, it is surprising that we have gone this long with out issues coming up sooner and more frequently.

40 points by tokenadult 13y ago

It's kind of humiliating that we the great sentient race can't protect our bananas from some lowly fungus. I think we should get our act together. We've already lost a few rounds.

CatMtKing 13y ago
Well if we create a big enough niche by growing a very specific cultivar, something's going to fill it.

logfromblammo 13y ago

We've known this could happen for decades, just due to the way bananas are propagated. The same thing happened to the Gros Michel cultivar in the 1950s. Plantations will have to scramble to get up to speed on a new cultivar, and some people will go bankrupt. It's even the same species of fungus. Back then they called it Panama Disease. But now we have genetic technology. This fungal disease may spell the end of non-GMO bananas in supermarkets. If there were another natural cultivar resistant to the latest strain of the fungus, it would already be in use. It was a stroke of luck that they even found the Cavendish before bananas disappeared entirely from the food supply.

sp332 13y ago
If the genetic engineering works out, can we go back to the Gros Michel cultivar? They were sweeter and much bigger than Cavendish. Edit: The article mentions that the wild Asian banana Musa acuminata malaccensis seems to be resistant, but I'm betting they're small and/or not very tasty. Edit2: aw man, this is addressed right at the bottom of the article. "For his part, Dale is trying to engineer Gros Michel bananas for resistance to the original Foc strain."
- pkulak 13y ago
  Isn't the main benefit to Cavendish that it transports really well?
mathattack 13y ago
Wow - So are you saying this is a case for GMO (create a resistant banana) or against it (for killing biodiversity)? It's a shame because bananas are very cheap. On the one hand they're cheap enough to double in cost and many can handle it. On the other hand, they're a cheap staple for low income folks.
- pygy_ 13y ago
  There's no biodiversity in bananas. All Cavendish plants are sterile genetic clones. It was the same for Gros Michel. Edit: what more, GMO are not inherently bad. Monsanto gave them a bad name, because of their commercial practice (terminator gene), and the catastrophic environmental consequences of glyphosate-resistant crops. They can be used wisely. For example, did you know that the insulin diabetics use is produced by GM yeast?
  - jurjenh 13y ago
    Yes, but that's not the only way bananas propagate. The fruit is how genetic variability gets introduced, but they also develop shoots from the root system, which eventually grow into trees themselves. I believe traditionally bananas are grown as the main trunk, then 2 baby shoots at differing maturity. Once the main stem has fruited, it is removed and the next one takes over, at which point another shoot is allowed to develop. The extra shoots that are removed can be used to start another "family" elsewhere, but has the risk of spreading disease. These days tissue culturing is used, with a much lower risk of spreading disease.
    - pygy_ 13y ago
      Offshoots are non-artificial clones. They are genetically identical to the main stem... It's just the same plant.
      - mathattack 13y ago
        I'm impressed with the bananaknowledge here. Is there a limited amount of times you can do this?

lutorm 13y ago

"something killed our huge monoculture, so we replaced it with another huge monoculture, and now something's killing it!" Is it really so surprising?

jurjenh 13y ago
The problem here being that "normal" bananas have seeds in them, and the Cavendish and Gros Michel are specific hybrids that don't - so the only way to propagate is essentially cloning them (take a cutting and grow it) - lots and lots of identical plants. Going back to a more "natural" system would involve a lot of variation in fruit crops, which means handling and processing costs would go up tremendously, likely leading to the same result: no bananas for most people. One of the more sustainable solutions is to eat local - food that is locally grown, thus suited for your environment. However, this means that all those in temperate climates will (eventually) need to forgo tropical fruits... or grow them in glasshouses. Not sure what the best approach would be here, but I'm fortunate enough to be in an area where you can grow bananas - so I'm trying my luck (Auckland, New Zealand)
- mathattack 13y ago
  Bananas are cheap enough that many of us can afford a 2x or 3x cost increase easier than with other fruits. What's so bad about banana seeds? Are they hard like in grapes?
  - jurjenh 13y ago
    They look much more like passionfruit, but with more solid fleshy material. I think the seeds are hard and inedible, but haven't ever seen them in real life... Also the cultivated ones have been developed specifically for their transportability and shelf life, with the taste as a lower priority. Hmmm... wonder what those Gros Michel taste like? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana
    - mathattack 13y ago

dmazin 13y ago

Is that an Arrested Development reference?

michaelochurch 13y ago
There's always fungus in the banana stand!

IvyMike 13y ago

The apple guys (the fruit not the tech) have been able to market a variety of cultivars quite successfully. Even the tomato guys are doing good work with the whole "heirloom" thing. I don't get why the banana guys don't try the same thing. Edit: There are already a bunch of cultivars out there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banana_cultivars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banana_cultivars And according to this poster, bananas mutate quite easily, so there are actually a huge number of variants out there: http://www.fruitlovers.com/BananaPoster.jpg http://www.fruitlovers.com/BananaPoster.jpg Yeah, most of these bananas aren't great for eatin' but surely we made a good banana once, we can do it again. And if you think hipsters wouldn't pay more for a unique "artisanal heirloom banana" then you don't shop at the Whole Foods down the street from me because those dudes would be all over it like fungus on a Cavendish. C'mon banana hackers. We need you now more than ever.

Kronopath 13y ago
The difference is that bananas are all genetically identical, leaving them much more susceptible to disease. Commercial banana plants are sterile and must be bred by grafting, which isn't the case with apples (to my knowledge). https://www.commondreams.org/views03/0719-02.htm https://www.commondreams.org/views03/0719-02.htm
- maxerickson 13y ago
  Apples don't breed true, so all the store varieties are clones. The difference is probably more because desirable fruit apples have viable seeds (so it's easier to grow an orchard and just see what tastes good).
ajross 13y ago
You can't breed a banana. The species can't sexually reproduce, so all plants are essentially clones. This makes the production of new breeds very slow (you can't cross-breed to isolate desired traits) and means that when a novel disease arrives, no individual plants will have any immunity.
- 13y ago

jrkelly 13y ago

If GMOs can get a win with this, citrus greening disease in oranges, or vitamin A-fortified "golden" rice it will be a big deal for public acceptance of the technology.

state 13y ago

Not to diminish the downsides of this, but I really can't get enough of the wide variety of tiny bananas I get to eat when in Asia. You can find them occasionally here in the US, but they seem low on the import priority list. Wouldn't mind seeing more diversity in the banana department. There's a whole world of deliciousness we rarely see.

ArbitraryLimits 13y ago
None of them handle all of: being picked early, being shipped, sitting in a supermarket display, and being bagged. That's why there's only one cultivar in US supermarkets in the first place.
- state 13y ago
  Of course! Makes sense. Good point.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > That's why there's only one cultivar in US supermarkets in the first place. Well, except that I've been in several US supermarkets with more than one cultivar. (I think red and apple bananas are the most common non-Cavendish ones, excluding plantains, I've seen.)

drakaal 13y ago

Bananas are basically all clones (Seedless and all that) This makes the risk very high for such things, it is surprising that we have gone this long with out issues coming up sooner and more frequently.