7 ms·

I don't "get" this article. The beginning seems to be him talking about how difficult it was for him to get the police to think he was suspicious. The article

by blhack 13y ago

I don't "get" this article. The beginning seems to be him talking about how difficult it was for him to get the police to think he was suspicious. The article was really interesting, and it seemed to be a point about racial/socio-economic profiling. But once he got into the system, he was treated terribly. Probation, not being allowed to visit his family, for a misdemeanor. -- Honestly, his conclusion sounds more like justice /is/ being applied evenly, it's just that it was harder for him to get the police's attention while he was wandering around in a suit and tie.

DanBC 13y ago
The article describes the imbalance of policing white and black communities. It then describes the stupid sub-optimal workings of the punishments, allowing the reader to draw their own conclusion about how someone subject to those restrictions is supposed to move away from crime. It is stupid that a non-violent misdemeanour offence can prevent someone from travelling outside an area.
corin_ 13y ago
He was making two points, the first that it isn't being applied evenly (just because it's applied evenly after a guilty verdict, that doesn't change the fact that the system is less willing to find certain people guilty in the first place). The second point is then that people are treated badly after being found guilty, regardless of race.
- mathattack 13y ago
  And that this is what he was up against as a suit wearing white person. Others get it much worse.
moocowduckquack 13y ago
his conclusion sounds more like justice /is/ being applied evenly He is one of their own who had gone out of his way to make them look foolish. Once that was clear he was treated more harshly than an equivalent first offender, not less. edit - and not equally.
- blhack 13y ago
  How do we know this? Why would we assume that the prosecutor would have gone to the trouble of digging that deep over a misdemeanor graffiti charge?
  - jbooth 13y ago
    The prosecutor recommended the standard dismissal before noticing the sticky attached to his/her file that presumably said something like "troublemaking asshole - smash this guy".
    - angersock 13y ago
      Mockery of justice, that. Enough to make one doubt the legitimacy of any verdict, much less that particular one.
  - stefantalpalaru 13y ago
    > The district attorney’s office, responsible for prosecuting offenders, asked the judge to dismiss my case with three days of community service. This is standard practice for first-time, nonviolent misdemeanor offenders. The judge read through the paperwork and agreed, though he raised the number of community service days to five. > I accepted the sentence and the clerk began reading it into the record. > “Your honor, wait!” the assistant state attorney interrupted. Startled by the outburst, the judge looked up and scowled as the attorney read something written on her file. She blushed and continued, “I’m sorry, I have to withdraw my offer.” As the judge shook his head and set a date to return, I felt an odd pang of empathy for her. Once, as a rookie prosecutor, a judge had humiliated me in open court for being evasive about a file that had an ominous yellow “do not dismiss” sticky note on it.
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    I dunno, maybe because we read the article?
YoukaiCountry 13y ago
I thought the same thing as you. The police he encountered possibly weren't 'used' to the sort of behavior he was exhibiting, and the way he was going about the crime. It's difficult to conclude that it was necessarily tied to his class / color, and I wonder if the author didn't go in with an idea in mind, and simply saw what he wanted.
- coldtea 13y ago
  >The police he encountered possibly weren't 'used' to the sort of behavior he was exhibiting They aren't supposed to be used (e.g to crime being black). They are supposed to use their eyes and investigate. That's their work.
larrys 13y ago
"But once he got into the system, he was treated terribly" Compared to what? And where else has he personally has experienced? While I'm sure it wasn't a walk in the park (or a stay at the Four Seasons) even reading hotel reviews different people can say wildly different things about the same hotel on different days. He had the basis of a good article here though no matter what. A good experience or a bad experience gives him the basis for something that people would find interesting that have never been arrested before.
- gknoy 13y ago
  Compared to the customary practices of light sentences for nonviolent offences that he was accustomed to seeing __in his career as an ADA in Boston__. Compared to the plea that the DA was originally willing to extend to him, and later rescinded.
logfromblammo 13y ago
No, it was not applied evenly. Most people in his situation would not have had their plea deal revoked at the last second. The state's attorney and the judge singled him out and piled on extra charges because he publicly embarrassed the justice system. His real "crime" was bringing a reporter along to witness him handing over his signed confession. The instant he did that, he lost all hope of seeing how justice works for normal folks. How is anyone to know whether his ill treatment was due to his actual crime or due to the pseudocrime of creating bad publicity for the powers that be?
coldtea 13y ago
>Honestly, his conclusion sounds more like justice /is/ being applied evenly, it's just that it was harder for him to get the police's attention while he was wandering around in a suit and tie. Not really. The idea is the system is flawed both ways: At first, he was ignored because he was white, well groomed and such. (Racism). In the second part, he was punished harshly not because suddenly the system made a u-turn and decided to "apply justice evenly", but because they didn't appreciate him making waves and questioning their practices.
- DigitalJack 13y ago
  To be fair it would be nice for a black journalist do the same in a suit and tie.
  - Edmond 13y ago
    I hope that was a joke because I don't see how that would be a smart thing to do even for the purpose of investigative journalism. Unless he or she has a way to quickly call mayday if things start to go wrong which they most likely will. The criminal justice system is fairly dangerous for blacks, especially men.
    - DigitalJack 13y ago
      It's not a joke, but I do take your point. I just think investigative jounalism is the best way to expose this shit. Frankly I'm pretty isolated and don't see or take for granted this level of racism. It shocks me. I think some hardcore expose work will have to happen. And I Mean seriously hard core. Like sacrifice an eye to hold an embedded camera type hardcore. Wishful thinking, I know.
  - jggonz 13y ago
    It's not a safe endeavor for a black journalist to do what this man did. I'm sure he would have been arrested early on, and probably even charged with a worse offense out of spite (such as resisting arrest). That would probably result in significant jail time. (Max jail time of 6 months in some states, max 2 years in others... and 'unlimited' fine amounts)
njharman 13y ago
Yes you didn't and No the conclusion is not that justice is being applied evenly. Be white professional == not get arrested. Expose the system == get inordinately punished as severely as possible even if (or maybe more so) you are white professional. The system is unjust and abuses its authority to intimidate / curtail anyone pointing that out (or otherwise embarrassing the system, it's components or people).
scotty79 13y ago
It fits together perfectly. At first they couldn't notice him, then they arrested him and embarrassed with their incompetence, they inconvenienced him as much as they could (they couldn't beat him up because if he said they did people would believe him). After that they prosecuted him diligently for a long time (because that's what they thought will look best). But in the end prosecutor dared only to demand 15 days of community service for him. But the judge (whose basically a god in justice system) got annoyed and on a whim locked the poor guy inside New York for 3 years out of spite and allowed police to pay him a visit any time if they'd like to harass him a bit. You could say that justice has been applied evenly but only if you average out severe neglect at the beginning and revenge at the end. If he didn't piss of the judge (by being who he is) he'd get 15 days of community service after long trial and if he didn't influence the prosecutors (by being who he is) he'd get 3 days without much fuss. So as a non-lawyer white guy he'd get arrested (if he wanted to be), inconvenienced and get 3 days of community service. As a black guy, he'd get snatched of the street much earlier, get beaten up, and get much more severe sentence (maybe year of probation).
hawleyal 13y ago
I think the point is that it is a contrived and arbitrary circus. No rhyme or reason. Filled with prejudice, brutality, and inhumanity.

by blhack 13y ago

DanBC 13y ago

The article describes the imbalance of policing white and black communities. It then describes the stupid sub-optimal workings of the punishments, allowing the reader to draw their own conclusion about how someone subject to those restrictions is supposed to move away from crime. It is stupid that a non-violent misdemeanour offence can prevent someone from travelling outside an area.

corin_ 13y ago

He was making two points, the first that it isn't being applied evenly (just because it's applied evenly after a guilty verdict, that doesn't change the fact that the system is less willing to find certain people guilty in the first place). The second point is then that people are treated badly after being found guilty, regardless of race.

mathattack 13y ago
And that this is what he was up against as a suit wearing white person. Others get it much worse.

moocowduckquack 13y ago

his conclusion sounds more like justice /is/ being applied evenly He is one of their own who had gone out of his way to make them look foolish. Once that was clear he was treated more harshly than an equivalent first offender, not less. edit - and not equally.

blhack 13y ago
How do we know this? Why would we assume that the prosecutor would have gone to the trouble of digging that deep over a misdemeanor graffiti charge?
- jbooth 13y ago
  The prosecutor recommended the standard dismissal before noticing the sticky attached to his/her file that presumably said something like "troublemaking asshole - smash this guy".
  - angersock 13y ago
    Mockery of justice, that. Enough to make one doubt the legitimacy of any verdict, much less that particular one.
- stefantalpalaru 13y ago
  > The district attorney’s office, responsible for prosecuting offenders, asked the judge to dismiss my case with three days of community service. This is standard practice for first-time, nonviolent misdemeanor offenders. The judge read through the paperwork and agreed, though he raised the number of community service days to five. > I accepted the sentence and the clerk began reading it into the record. > “Your honor, wait!” the assistant state attorney interrupted. Startled by the outburst, the judge looked up and scowled as the attorney read something written on her file. She blushed and continued, “I’m sorry, I have to withdraw my offer.” As the judge shook his head and set a date to return, I felt an odd pang of empathy for her. Once, as a rookie prosecutor, a judge had humiliated me in open court for being evasive about a file that had an ominous yellow “do not dismiss” sticky note on it.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  I dunno, maybe because we read the article?

YoukaiCountry 13y ago

I thought the same thing as you. The police he encountered possibly weren't 'used' to the sort of behavior he was exhibiting, and the way he was going about the crime. It's difficult to conclude that it was necessarily tied to his class / color, and I wonder if the author didn't go in with an idea in mind, and simply saw what he wanted.

coldtea 13y ago
>The police he encountered possibly weren't 'used' to the sort of behavior he was exhibiting They aren't supposed to be used (e.g to crime being black). They are supposed to use their eyes and investigate. That's their work.

larrys 13y ago

"But once he got into the system, he was treated terribly" Compared to what? And where else has he personally has experienced? While I'm sure it wasn't a walk in the park (or a stay at the Four Seasons) even reading hotel reviews different people can say wildly different things about the same hotel on different days. He had the basis of a good article here though no matter what. A good experience or a bad experience gives him the basis for something that people would find interesting that have never been arrested before.

gknoy 13y ago
Compared to the customary practices of light sentences for nonviolent offences that he was accustomed to seeing __in his career as an ADA in Boston__. Compared to the plea that the DA was originally willing to extend to him, and later rescinded.

logfromblammo 13y ago

No, it was not applied evenly. Most people in his situation would not have had their plea deal revoked at the last second. The state's attorney and the judge singled him out and piled on extra charges because he publicly embarrassed the justice system. His real "crime" was bringing a reporter along to witness him handing over his signed confession. The instant he did that, he lost all hope of seeing how justice works for normal folks. How is anyone to know whether his ill treatment was due to his actual crime or due to the pseudocrime of creating bad publicity for the powers that be?

coldtea 13y ago

>Honestly, his conclusion sounds more like justice /is/ being applied evenly, it's just that it was harder for him to get the police's attention while he was wandering around in a suit and tie. Not really. The idea is the system is flawed both ways: At first, he was ignored because he was white, well groomed and such. (Racism). In the second part, he was punished harshly not because suddenly the system made a u-turn and decided to "apply justice evenly", but because they didn't appreciate him making waves and questioning their practices.

DigitalJack 13y ago
To be fair it would be nice for a black journalist do the same in a suit and tie.
- Edmond 13y ago
  I hope that was a joke because I don't see how that would be a smart thing to do even for the purpose of investigative journalism. Unless he or she has a way to quickly call mayday if things start to go wrong which they most likely will. The criminal justice system is fairly dangerous for blacks, especially men.
  - DigitalJack 13y ago
    It's not a joke, but I do take your point. I just think investigative jounalism is the best way to expose this shit. Frankly I'm pretty isolated and don't see or take for granted this level of racism. It shocks me. I think some hardcore expose work will have to happen. And I Mean seriously hard core. Like sacrifice an eye to hold an embedded camera type hardcore. Wishful thinking, I know.
- jggonz 13y ago
  It's not a safe endeavor for a black journalist to do what this man did. I'm sure he would have been arrested early on, and probably even charged with a worse offense out of spite (such as resisting arrest). That would probably result in significant jail time. (Max jail time of 6 months in some states, max 2 years in others... and 'unlimited' fine amounts)

njharman 13y ago

Yes you didn't and No the conclusion is not that justice is being applied evenly. Be white professional == not get arrested. Expose the system == get inordinately punished as severely as possible even if (or maybe more so) you are white professional. The system is unjust and abuses its authority to intimidate / curtail anyone pointing that out (or otherwise embarrassing the system, it's components or people).

scotty79 13y ago

It fits together perfectly. At first they couldn't notice him, then they arrested him and embarrassed with their incompetence, they inconvenienced him as much as they could (they couldn't beat him up because if he said they did people would believe him). After that they prosecuted him diligently for a long time (because that's what they thought will look best). But in the end prosecutor dared only to demand 15 days of community service for him. But the judge (whose basically a god in justice system) got annoyed and on a whim locked the poor guy inside New York for 3 years out of spite and allowed police to pay him a visit any time if they'd like to harass him a bit. You could say that justice has been applied evenly but only if you average out severe neglect at the beginning and revenge at the end. If he didn't piss of the judge (by being who he is) he'd get 15 days of community service after long trial and if he didn't influence the prosecutors (by being who he is) he'd get 3 days without much fuss. So as a non-lawyer white guy he'd get arrested (if he wanted to be), inconvenienced and get 3 days of community service. As a black guy, he'd get snatched of the street much earlier, get beaten up, and get much more severe sentence (maybe year of probation).

hawleyal 13y ago

I think the point is that it is a contrived and arbitrary circus. No rhyme or reason. Filled with prejudice, brutality, and inhumanity.