4 ms·

Judging by the other responses, I'm probably a bit of a contrarian, but all in all: "meh". I honestly don't care. Wealth is not a zero sum game, and all talk a

by viggity 13y ago

Judging by the other responses, I'm probably a bit of a contrarian, but all in all: "meh". I honestly don't care. Wealth is not a zero sum game, and all talk about the horrors of wealth inequality are completely ignorant of that fact. I think gift taxes are bullshit. If I earned and paid taxes on income/capital gains, I should be able to give the balance to whom ever I wish. Double taxation is bullshit.

swalkergibson 13y ago
What if you earned the money through a company using the Double Irish Dutch Sandwich tax shelter and didn't pay your fair share when you earned it? That is why wealth inequality is a problem. Our government is owned by the people that can afford to make donations, which are the same people that benefit from these tax games.
- viggity 13y ago
  If you have a problem with a double Dutch sandwich, then lobby for fixing that, but don't hose a hard working farmer and his family by nailing them with a 40% estate tax. There are a lot of millionaires who have paid taxes on every penny they've made.
  - swalkergibson 13y ago
    I have a problem with all of these tax loopholes. The tax code already has a rule in it about estate tax, which means that estate tax should be collected. To not close this loophole is unfair, that is what I am saying. Finally, how many hardworking farmers do you know that would just straight-up hand their kids something for nothing? If we are going to work with stereotypes like that, I would be willing to bet that the farmer would be happy to sell his successful farm to his kids for fair market value so they could work as hard as he did to make a living for their families.
  - mikeyouse 13y ago
    but don't hose a hard working farmer and his family by nailing them with a 40% estate tax. Cute, but the estate tax has exemptions for both farms and family-owned businesses. The Tax Policy Center found 20 (!) farms in the country that would have to pay any sort of estate tax, and the average tax paid by those 20 (out of several thousand farms) would be under 5%.[1] - See Myth 5 - http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=2655 http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=2655
- lvh 13y ago
  Why not fix circumvented corporate and income taxes so that everyone does pay a fair share, instead of taxing elsewhere where it would affect both those who did and did not previous pay their fair share?
mikeyouse 13y ago
I think gift taxes are bullshit. Simply a mechanism to prevent people from calling salary (or estate tax avoidance) 'gifts'. The exemption level is $14,000/year/person, I think that's more than fair. If I earned and paid taxes on income/capital gains, I should be able to give the balance to whom ever I wish. Follow me on a little thought experiment if you would; 1. It's spring 1997, life is good, you just got a huge bonus and decided to buy shares in a flailing tech company called Apple Computer. 2. With your $250,000 bonus, you buy 62,500 shares at $4/share. 3. You and your wife live a happy life and in 2013, you pass away, content with your impact on humanity. Fortunately your wife will be taken care of since you hadn't touched any of those Apple shares. That stock is now worth $550/share, and your wife's 62,500 shares are worth $35 million. A gain of $34,750,000. So your wife should get that $34mm without strings? Even though no tax was ever paid on it? Double taxation is bullshit. It's a meaningless phrase. Are property taxes bullshit? You paid taxes on your income before you paid on the property... Sales tax? Same story. Money circulates through the economy, it's taxed at various places, every dollar is taxed a litany of times. The number of times you're taxed should be irrelevant as long as it's fair and equitable.
- viggity 13y ago
  1. you'd be paying income tax on the $250k bonus 2. if I understand correctly, you/your wife would have to pay capital gains on the stock when it is sold (the value realized).
  - mikeyouse 13y ago
    if I understand correctly, you/your wife would have to pay capital gains on the stock when it is sold That's exactly the problem, unrealized capital gains at death are treated with a 'stepped-up basis.' [1] Because of this provision, any appreciation of the affected property that occurred during the decedent's lifetime will never be taxed. Thus, this provision provides an incentive for taxpayers to retain appreciated property until death and sell depreciated property while they are alive. So you would bequeath your wife assets worth $250k, and she'd receive assets worth $35mm, with no tax due. Hence why there's an estate tax. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepped-up_basis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepped-up_basis (Note: Wife may have been a bad example to start with due to legally shared property and all that, but this would be true if you left it to your children)

by viggity 13y ago

swalkergibson 13y ago

What if you earned the money through a company using the Double Irish Dutch Sandwich tax shelter and didn't pay your fair share when you earned it? That is why wealth inequality is a problem. Our government is owned by the people that can afford to make donations, which are the same people that benefit from these tax games.

viggity 13y ago
If you have a problem with a double Dutch sandwich, then lobby for fixing that, but don't hose a hard working farmer and his family by nailing them with a 40% estate tax. There are a lot of millionaires who have paid taxes on every penny they've made.
- swalkergibson 13y ago
  I have a problem with all of these tax loopholes. The tax code already has a rule in it about estate tax, which means that estate tax should be collected. To not close this loophole is unfair, that is what I am saying. Finally, how many hardworking farmers do you know that would just straight-up hand their kids something for nothing? If we are going to work with stereotypes like that, I would be willing to bet that the farmer would be happy to sell his successful farm to his kids for fair market value so they could work as hard as he did to make a living for their families.
- mikeyouse 13y ago
  but don't hose a hard working farmer and his family by nailing them with a 40% estate tax. Cute, but the estate tax has exemptions for both farms and family-owned businesses. The Tax Policy Center found 20 (!) farms in the country that would have to pay any sort of estate tax, and the average tax paid by those 20 (out of several thousand farms) would be under 5%.[1] - See Myth 5 - http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=2655 http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=2655
lvh 13y ago
Why not fix circumvented corporate and income taxes so that everyone does pay a fair share, instead of taxing elsewhere where it would affect both those who did and did not previous pay their fair share?

mikeyouse 13y ago

I think gift taxes are bullshit. Simply a mechanism to prevent people from calling salary (or estate tax avoidance) 'gifts'. The exemption level is $14,000/year/person, I think that's more than fair. If I earned and paid taxes on income/capital gains, I should be able to give the balance to whom ever I wish. Follow me on a little thought experiment if you would; 1. It's spring 1997, life is good, you just got a huge bonus and decided to buy shares in a flailing tech company called Apple Computer. 2. With your $250,000 bonus, you buy 62,500 shares at $4/share. 3. You and your wife live a happy life and in 2013, you pass away, content with your impact on humanity. Fortunately your wife will be taken care of since you hadn't touched any of those Apple shares. That stock is now worth $550/share, and your wife's 62,500 shares are worth $35 million. A gain of $34,750,000. So your wife should get that $34mm without strings? Even though no tax was ever paid on it? Double taxation is bullshit. It's a meaningless phrase. Are property taxes bullshit? You paid taxes on your income before you paid on the property... Sales tax? Same story. Money circulates through the economy, it's taxed at various places, every dollar is taxed a litany of times. The number of times you're taxed should be irrelevant as long as it's fair and equitable.

viggity 13y ago
1. you'd be paying income tax on the $250k bonus 2. if I understand correctly, you/your wife would have to pay capital gains on the stock when it is sold (the value realized).
- mikeyouse 13y ago
  if I understand correctly, you/your wife would have to pay capital gains on the stock when it is sold That's exactly the problem, unrealized capital gains at death are treated with a 'stepped-up basis.' [1] Because of this provision, any appreciation of the affected property that occurred during the decedent's lifetime will never be taxed. Thus, this provision provides an incentive for taxpayers to retain appreciated property until death and sell depreciated property while they are alive. So you would bequeath your wife assets worth $250k, and she'd receive assets worth $35mm, with no tax due. Hence why there's an estate tax. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepped-up_basis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepped-up_basis (Note: Wife may have been a bad example to start with due to legally shared property and all that, but this would be true if you left it to your children)