3 ms·

> Smith voluntarily transmitted the phone numbers he dialed to the phone company, information he and everyone else know are commonly stored as business records

> Smith voluntarily transmitted the phone numbers he dialed to the phone company, information he and everyone else know are commonly stored as business records I think I can understand and agree with this. I'm not sure what I think about the phone company disclosing these records to other people. Regardless of its actual legality, I think the distribution of that data could be a breach of trust. It is entirely reasonable for my phone company to know who I'm calling, but I still expect that data to be "relatively private". I would be upset if my neighbours could get it from the phone company. I would be upset if the phone company mailed that data to me on a postcard. I think we should be similarly upset if the police can get hold of it without a court order. How does the law address this? Is that information just not disclosed "in confidence"? Does the law follow a "genie out of the bottle" logic, whereby information that is not absolutely private is not private at all? Or do law enforcement agencies have a privileges regarding otherwise private information?

bwaldrep 13y ago
From US v Miller as cited in Smith v Maryland: "The depositor takes the risk, in revealing his affairs to another, that the information will be conveyed by that person to the Government. . . . This Court has held repeatedly that the Fourth Amendment does not prohibit the obtaining of information revealed to a third party and conveyed by him to Government authorities, even if the information is revealed on the assumption that it will be used only for a limited purpose and the confidence placed in the third party will not be betrayed." US v Miller: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=15052729295643479698&q=smith+v+maryland&hl=en&as_sdt=6,39 http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=1505272929564347... Smith v Maryland: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3033726127475530815&q=smith+v+maryland&hl=en&as_sdt=6,39 http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3033726127475530...
- repsilat 13y ago
  I guess that makes sense again -- I don't have a problem with them "obtaining" the data, and a voluntary disclosure certainly shouldn't be called a "search". If the government asks for the data and the telco willingly complies with the request then I don't think the government has done anything that should be illegal (though it's not very nice of them.) Two caveats, though: Even if the government is in the clear for obtaining the data, I'm not so sure the telco has a (moral) leg to stand on. We should consider making the distribution of that information illegal, if it isn't already. I have no idea if this would make the government's request "incitement", though I guess the answer might lie somewhere around the civil/criminal distinction. I'm clearly not a lawyer, so I can't really pretend to understand the likely forms or consequences of any of this... The second caveat is that if the government compels the telco to hand the data over then it's a completely different ball game. That is a (plain-language) search, and it would be disappointing if that weren't subject to Fourth Amendment protections.

bwaldrep 13y ago

From US v Miller as cited in Smith v Maryland: "The depositor takes the risk, in revealing his affairs to another, that the information will be conveyed by that person to the Government. . . . This Court has held repeatedly that the Fourth Amendment does not prohibit the obtaining of information revealed to a third party and conveyed by him to Government authorities, even if the information is revealed on the assumption that it will be used only for a limited purpose and the confidence placed in the third party will not be betrayed." US v Miller: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=15052729295643479698&q=smith+v+maryland&hl=en&as_sdt=6,39 http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=1505272929564347... Smith v Maryland: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3033726127475530815&q=smith+v+maryland&hl=en&as_sdt=6,39 http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3033726127475530...

repsilat 13y ago
I guess that makes sense again -- I don't have a problem with them "obtaining" the data, and a voluntary disclosure certainly shouldn't be called a "search". If the government asks for the data and the telco willingly complies with the request then I don't think the government has done anything that should be illegal (though it's not very nice of them.) Two caveats, though: Even if the government is in the clear for obtaining the data, I'm not so sure the telco has a (moral) leg to stand on. We should consider making the distribution of that information illegal, if it isn't already. I have no idea if this would make the government's request "incitement", though I guess the answer might lie somewhere around the civil/criminal distinction. I'm clearly not a lawyer, so I can't really pretend to understand the likely forms or consequences of any of this... The second caveat is that if the government compels the telco to hand the data over then it's a completely different ball game. That is a (plain-language) search, and it would be disappointing if that weren't subject to Fourth Amendment protections.