21 ms·

Fedora 20 released

124 points by drill_sarge 13y ago

Download: https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/20/ More mirrors here, but not all servers are synced with 20 yet: https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/publiclist/Fedora/20/ No announcement yet, link in title leads to release notes.

drill_sarge 13y ago
Download: https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/20/ https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/20/ More mirrors here, but not all servers are synced with 20 yet: https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/publiclist/Fedora/20/ https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/publiclist/Fedora/20/ No announcement yet, link in title leads to release notes.
chatman 13y ago
This is great. :-) This is still in beta.
brokenparser 13y ago
Direct link to ISO: http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/20/Live/x86_64/Fedora-Live-Desktop-x86_64-20-1.iso http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/... (Might still give a 404 until your mirror is in sync.)
reidrac 13y ago
"Syslog removed from default installation" and "Users accustomed to checking /var/log/messages for system logs should instead use journalctl." I'm sure I'm going to forget about that... I can't wait for the first WTF :)
- brokenparser 13y ago
  It's quite an audacious release note. As if millions of users are suddenly going to forget about cat, head, tail, more, less, grep, awk, sed, fmt, etc. etc. that are only still useful if you learn how to journalctl and convert those binary logs back into plain text. I'd like to install Fedora 20 and use it as my main desktop, but both systemd and journald will somehow have to be avoided and worked around because I don't want to touch those with a ten foot pole. As far as mainstream Linux distributions go, it's like choosing between 2 evils nowadays: * Ubuntu: decent base system, lousy desktop * Fedora: lousy base system, decent desktop The former is almost fixed by Elementary OS, but the latter I'm still looking for a spin or derivative that fixes it. What attracts me most to these mainstream distributions is the vast amount of available packages and their ease of maintenance.
  - reidrac 13y ago
    I don't usually have the need to check syslog in my desktop, unless I'm doing development, and in that case I will install syslog-ng (and systemctl enable syslog-ng). Not a big deal. As for servers, I wouldn't use Fedora. Each release is supported for only 13 months and upgrades are not as seamless as in Debian. So for me Fedora is a very decent desktop if you want the new shinies with ease of use. Most of the time works and it's great (even with the "Gnome 3 surprise factor", that keep _breaking_ things every now and then).
    - cones688 13y ago
      > As for servers, I wouldn't use Fedora. That's what RedHat (or CentOS) is for...
      - brokenparser 13y ago
        Or Scientific Linux.
  - rwmj 13y ago
    You can do "yum install rsyslog". However I agree that it shouldn't have been removed.
    - brokenparser 13y ago
      That's nice, but can you "yum install upstart"?
      - rwmj 13y ago
        No. Why would you want to? Upstart is inferior to systemd in every way and if Fedora supported both then it would have to test every package that contained a daemon twice.
        brokenparser 13y ago
Sanddancer 13y ago
Seeing the removal of syslogd, getting more than a bit grumpy here at the continuing direction Redhat is dragging the Linux world. Journald may serve the basic user well, it can't do half the stuff a good syslogd configuration can do; it can't pipe messages to other processes, it can't send messages to remote servers, it can't send messages to multiple places. If redhat had put in services to let journald do the things syslogd's been able to do since forever, I'd be more ok with its direction, but as it stands, it's proprietary in all but name.
- mateuszf 13y ago
  AFAIK it's quite easy to hook up rsyslog to it and then it doesn't make a difference.
  - brokenparser 13y ago
    That seems a bit inefficient to me, you'd end up with both binary and textual log files.
    - anonymouscowar1 13y ago
      Presumably if you want syslogd's features, it's for something other than the text log files (logging to SQL, network logging, ...).
    - andrewaylett 13y ago
      If you're doing this, you probably want to disable saving the binary logs -- journald will still retain recent logs from the current boot, so the status commands will still work. Personally, I uninstalled syslog and enabled binary log retention back when I was running F18, and I'm wishing my Ubuntu and Debian boxes had the same ability.
- DrJokepu 13y ago
  If you need syslogd, isn’t it as simple as yum install syslogd and then you’re sorted?
jops 13y ago
With Gnome 3.10. Nice. Even nicer with the Phosphene theme: http://hdni.github.io/rice/assets/phosphene_preview.png http://hdni.github.io/rice/assets/phosphene_preview.png - https://github.com/hdni/Phosphene https://github.com/hdni/Phosphene
- cones688 13y ago
  Looks really nice! How jarring are non flat designed windows such as chrome/evolution etc? Do they look a bit "too" ill fitting?
- leokun 13y ago
  The dialogs definitely look nicer than your standard Gnome dialogs.
broodbucket 13y ago
What excellent docs, I don't think I've ever read all the release notes like that. I'm wooed, gonna install this on something.
wcchandler 13y ago
Here are the torrents: http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/ http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/ x86_64 DVD: http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/Fedora-20-x86_64-DVD.torrent http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/Fedora-20-x86_64-D... magnet:?xt=urn:btih:724bcc8a53b854daa844e6bc204b95124a1074d6&dn=Fedora-20-x86%5F64-DVD&tr=http%3A%2F%2Ftorrent.fedoraproject.org%3A6969%2Fannounce i386 DVD: http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/Fedora-20-i386-DVD.torrent http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/Fedora-20-i386-DVD... magnet:?xt=urn:btih:d6d123d9a9b108971ecb09ca6593d2593cd564a4&dn=Fedora-20-i386-DVD&tr=http%3A%2F%2Ftorrent.fedoraproject.org%3A6969%2Fannounce
kolme 13y ago
Also note, this is the first Distro (that I know of) that is resolution-independent out of the box -- thanks to Gnome 3.10. Retina and retina-like users rejoice!
- aeroevan 13y ago
  OpenSUSE 13.1 released with GNOME 3.10 already :P
  - adrianlmm 13y ago
    OpenSUSE renders the fonts horrible, I don't know why is that.
_sabe_ 13y ago
While on the topic, does any one have a good strategy for building the gstreamer-bad/ugly plugins on Fedora? I don't like the rpmfusion repository as it always seems to mess up the system sooner or later.
- adestefan 13y ago
  Why not grab the SRPM and just rebuild it yourself?
- rwmj 13y ago
  I always have rpmfusion (http://rpmfusion.org/ http://rpmfusion.org/) enabled, and I've never seen it mess up anything.
tux 13y ago
Alternative Mirror; http://fedora.mirror.nexicom.net/linux/releases/20/ http://fedora.mirror.nexicom.net/linux/releases/20/
gary4gar 13y ago
Ruby Devs, Take note, Fedora 20 has ruby 2 & rails 4 available. to get started with rails, all you need to do is: yum install rubygem-rails and Bam, it will install latest ruby, rails & other dependencies. That's not all, they have more than 2thousand ruby related packages(all recent versions). Fedora seems to have one of best ruby support. Way to go! https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/s/ruby https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/s/ruby
- yapcguy 13y ago
  How does one decide whether to install from a package repository, or directly via gems? What's the typical time lag before a package get updated after a gem does?
  - anonymouscowar1 13y ago
    Package repository may bump versions without warning, and lags behind gems. There is no typical lag time, it's updated whenever the packager feels like it. You can file bugs at redhat bugzilla to try and motivate them to update packages sooner, if you want something specific. On the plus side, you get security updates, and any gems that are packaged should be compatible with each other to some extent. In general, I think ruby packages are good for end-users, but maybe not great for developing ruby applications or other gems. (I don't mean to rag on Fedora packaging here — I'm a Fedora packager! I just want people to be aware of the limitations of distro packaging.)
  - vinceguidry 13y ago
    I avoid package gems like the plague. It makes dependency management a gigantic pain in the ass and forces you to target your code to a specific version of an operating system. You can't take a system that works just fine in Fedora and move it to Debian without making sure the gem version differences don't break anything. In today's cloud-based hosting environment, you want to preserve mobility whenever possible, and Bundler does a better job of managing Ruby dependencies than dpkg/yum does. You can then use configuration management to get a system bootstrapped to a base where all your Ruby projects can run, then Bundler can take care of project-specific dependencies. It's not perfect, a lot of times a project gem will require system dependencies, like MySQL, but the separation of concerns does help a bit. You should, however, use system Ruby because using RVM / Rbenv in production vastly increases complexity, and because the system dependencies that your gems have will be the right versions. It's much easier now that the latest Ubuntu packages Ruby 2. It took me all of an afternoon to redo the configuration management and provisioning and migrate my projects when Ubuntu 13.10 came out.
dschiptsov 13y ago
''syslog is no longer included in default installations. journald logging serves most use cases as well as, or better than, syslogd.'' I think it has lots in common with this: "Fedora 20 includes the WildFly 8 Application Server, formerly known as the JBoss Application Server, a very popular Java EE platform. WildFly is a very fast, modular and lightweight server." keep producing more and more bloatware, without any other reasons than "because we have done it". I think that blindly allowing freedesktop guys to mess up all the traditional Unix startup and now logging tools with some MS-inspired crap for a very questionable reasons is quite a step back. It is also an example of an over-engineering bias (which comes from OO-only approach) - building up an unnecessary complexity. syslog and shell script based startup procedure are good-enough (and still good enough for sane systems such as BSDs or Plan9), while those who need a specialized logging (or startup) service could create it for themselves, as so many do. Changing reasonable defaults just because someone is cocksure that we need more xxxxctl and xxxxx-bridge instead of plain old text-files looks like ignorant over-confidence. Those who cannot live without journald could install it manually, why to cause a headache to the rest of us. I do remember that commercial variant of Suse Linux have tried "an innovative approach" to what a Linux server is. They introduced a set of some in-house made utilities (inspired by Netware I suppose) with non-intuitive logic and millions of command line options no one knows (which cannot be googled). Why, it is a way to success, now you could teach courses, do certification, issue meaningless titles, etc. Thank god its dead. ESX servers, btw, were (or still are) even bigger mess. I doubt that Fedora is going this way, but the signs are bad.)
- CraigJPerry 13y ago
  1. you don't have to upgrade 2. fork it and "fix" it If you opt for #2 submit it here.
- veeti 13y ago
  What the fuck are you going on about? WildFly is now included as an _available package for install in the repositories_. This is why it is in the release notes. This is like complaining that any disto is "bloatware" because their repositories include software that you happen to dislike and think is "bloat". $distro is bloated because KDE/GNOME/whatever is an option, right? Get a grip.
rogerthis 13y ago
Just for the record: - I've been using Fedora (VM, test, production server) since release 4 or 5. - I have a VM that has been updated without full reinstall since release 11. It will be destroyed soon, as I'm reinstalling the host. - I've been using Fedora as my main desktop since Fedora 16. My experience varies, depending on the sh*t they decide to push (like Gnome 3 or systemd). It takes time so that things get stable (or I get more used to them). As a full stack developer, I almost never use distro packages like gems or python libs or java libs. Even tools like Eclipse I prefer to install them separated. Overall, I'm satisfied.
adrianlmm 13y ago
Quick question: Anyone has succeeded dual botting Fedora 20 with Windows 8.1 in a UEFI system with secure boot? When I tried the beta it made Windows 8.1 unbootable.
- voltagex_ 13y ago
  Are you sure it didn't just replace the UEFI default boot entry? You should still be able to boot Windows after getting into GRUB, but if it messed up your EFI partition, that's a bug.
  - adrianlmm 13y ago
    That's what it did, it messed with my EFI partition, so, that's why Im askin if someone has succeded with the latest reléase.
justincormack 13y ago
Better update, I am behind. I run Fedora on my powerpc machine (Mac Pro) as it is the only distro (well and RH itself) with decent ppc64 support, as IBM pays Redhat still.

Fedora 20 released

124 points by drill_sarge 13y ago

drill_sarge 13y ago

Download: https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/20/ https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/20/ More mirrors here, but not all servers are synced with 20 yet: https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/publiclist/Fedora/20/ https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/publiclist/Fedora/20/ No announcement yet, link in title leads to release notes.

chatman 13y ago

This is great. :-) This is still in beta.

brokenparser 13y ago

Direct link to ISO: http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/20/Live/x86_64/Fedora-Live-Desktop-x86_64-20-1.iso http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/... (Might still give a 404 until your mirror is in sync.)

reidrac 13y ago

"Syslog removed from default installation" and "Users accustomed to checking /var/log/messages for system logs should instead use journalctl." I'm sure I'm going to forget about that... I can't wait for the first WTF :)

brokenparser 13y ago
It's quite an audacious release note. As if millions of users are suddenly going to forget about cat, head, tail, more, less, grep, awk, sed, fmt, etc. etc. that are only still useful if you learn how to journalctl and convert those binary logs back into plain text. I'd like to install Fedora 20 and use it as my main desktop, but both systemd and journald will somehow have to be avoided and worked around because I don't want to touch those with a ten foot pole. As far as mainstream Linux distributions go, it's like choosing between 2 evils nowadays: * Ubuntu: decent base system, lousy desktop * Fedora: lousy base system, decent desktop The former is almost fixed by Elementary OS, but the latter I'm still looking for a spin or derivative that fixes it. What attracts me most to these mainstream distributions is the vast amount of available packages and their ease of maintenance.
- reidrac 13y ago
  I don't usually have the need to check syslog in my desktop, unless I'm doing development, and in that case I will install syslog-ng (and systemctl enable syslog-ng). Not a big deal. As for servers, I wouldn't use Fedora. Each release is supported for only 13 months and upgrades are not as seamless as in Debian. So for me Fedora is a very decent desktop if you want the new shinies with ease of use. Most of the time works and it's great (even with the "Gnome 3 surprise factor", that keep _breaking_ things every now and then).
  - cones688 13y ago
    > As for servers, I wouldn't use Fedora. That's what RedHat (or CentOS) is for...
    - brokenparser 13y ago
      Or Scientific Linux.
- rwmj 13y ago
  You can do "yum install rsyslog". However I agree that it shouldn't have been removed.
  - brokenparser 13y ago
    That's nice, but can you "yum install upstart"?
    - rwmj 13y ago
      No. Why would you want to? Upstart is inferior to systemd in every way and if Fedora supported both then it would have to test every package that contained a daemon twice.
      - brokenparser 13y ago

Sanddancer 13y ago

Seeing the removal of syslogd, getting more than a bit grumpy here at the continuing direction Redhat is dragging the Linux world. Journald may serve the basic user well, it can't do half the stuff a good syslogd configuration can do; it can't pipe messages to other processes, it can't send messages to remote servers, it can't send messages to multiple places. If redhat had put in services to let journald do the things syslogd's been able to do since forever, I'd be more ok with its direction, but as it stands, it's proprietary in all but name.

mateuszf 13y ago
AFAIK it's quite easy to hook up rsyslog to it and then it doesn't make a difference.
- brokenparser 13y ago
  That seems a bit inefficient to me, you'd end up with both binary and textual log files.
  - anonymouscowar1 13y ago
    Presumably if you want syslogd's features, it's for something other than the text log files (logging to SQL, network logging, ...).
  - andrewaylett 13y ago
    If you're doing this, you probably want to disable saving the binary logs -- journald will still retain recent logs from the current boot, so the status commands will still work. Personally, I uninstalled syslog and enabled binary log retention back when I was running F18, and I'm wishing my Ubuntu and Debian boxes had the same ability.
DrJokepu 13y ago
If you need syslogd, isn’t it as simple as yum install syslogd and then you’re sorted?

jops 13y ago

With Gnome 3.10. Nice. Even nicer with the Phosphene theme: http://hdni.github.io/rice/assets/phosphene_preview.png http://hdni.github.io/rice/assets/phosphene_preview.png - https://github.com/hdni/Phosphene https://github.com/hdni/Phosphene

cones688 13y ago
Looks really nice! How jarring are non flat designed windows such as chrome/evolution etc? Do they look a bit "too" ill fitting?
leokun 13y ago
The dialogs definitely look nicer than your standard Gnome dialogs.

broodbucket 13y ago

What excellent docs, I don't think I've ever read all the release notes like that. I'm wooed, gonna install this on something.

wcchandler 13y ago

Here are the torrents: http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/ http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/ x86_64 DVD: http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/Fedora-20-x86_64-DVD.torrent http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/Fedora-20-x86_64-D... magnet:?xt=urn:btih:724bcc8a53b854daa844e6bc204b95124a1074d6&dn=Fedora-20-x86%5F64-DVD&tr=http%3A%2F%2Ftorrent.fedoraproject.org%3A6969%2Fannounce i386 DVD: http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/Fedora-20-i386-DVD.torrent http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/Fedora-20-i386-DVD... magnet:?xt=urn:btih:d6d123d9a9b108971ecb09ca6593d2593cd564a4&dn=Fedora-20-i386-DVD&tr=http%3A%2F%2Ftorrent.fedoraproject.org%3A6969%2Fannounce

kolme 13y ago

Also note, this is the first Distro (that I know of) that is resolution-independent out of the box -- thanks to Gnome 3.10. Retina and retina-like users rejoice!

aeroevan 13y ago
OpenSUSE 13.1 released with GNOME 3.10 already :P
- adrianlmm 13y ago
  OpenSUSE renders the fonts horrible, I don't know why is that.

_sabe_ 13y ago

While on the topic, does any one have a good strategy for building the gstreamer-bad/ugly plugins on Fedora? I don't like the rpmfusion repository as it always seems to mess up the system sooner or later.

adestefan 13y ago
Why not grab the SRPM and just rebuild it yourself?
rwmj 13y ago
I always have rpmfusion (http://rpmfusion.org/ http://rpmfusion.org/) enabled, and I've never seen it mess up anything.

tux 13y ago

Alternative Mirror; http://fedora.mirror.nexicom.net/linux/releases/20/ http://fedora.mirror.nexicom.net/linux/releases/20/

gary4gar 13y ago

Ruby Devs, Take note, Fedora 20 has ruby 2 & rails 4 available. to get started with rails, all you need to do is: yum install rubygem-rails and Bam, it will install latest ruby, rails & other dependencies. That's not all, they have more than 2thousand ruby related packages(all recent versions). Fedora seems to have one of best ruby support. Way to go! https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/s/ruby https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/s/ruby

yapcguy 13y ago
How does one decide whether to install from a package repository, or directly via gems? What's the typical time lag before a package get updated after a gem does?
- anonymouscowar1 13y ago
  Package repository may bump versions without warning, and lags behind gems. There is no typical lag time, it's updated whenever the packager feels like it. You can file bugs at redhat bugzilla to try and motivate them to update packages sooner, if you want something specific. On the plus side, you get security updates, and any gems that are packaged should be compatible with each other to some extent. In general, I think ruby packages are good for end-users, but maybe not great for developing ruby applications or other gems. (I don't mean to rag on Fedora packaging here — I'm a Fedora packager! I just want people to be aware of the limitations of distro packaging.)
- vinceguidry 13y ago
  I avoid package gems like the plague. It makes dependency management a gigantic pain in the ass and forces you to target your code to a specific version of an operating system. You can't take a system that works just fine in Fedora and move it to Debian without making sure the gem version differences don't break anything. In today's cloud-based hosting environment, you want to preserve mobility whenever possible, and Bundler does a better job of managing Ruby dependencies than dpkg/yum does. You can then use configuration management to get a system bootstrapped to a base where all your Ruby projects can run, then Bundler can take care of project-specific dependencies. It's not perfect, a lot of times a project gem will require system dependencies, like MySQL, but the separation of concerns does help a bit. You should, however, use system Ruby because using RVM / Rbenv in production vastly increases complexity, and because the system dependencies that your gems have will be the right versions. It's much easier now that the latest Ubuntu packages Ruby 2. It took me all of an afternoon to redo the configuration management and provisioning and migrate my projects when Ubuntu 13.10 came out.

dschiptsov 13y ago

''syslog is no longer included in default installations. journald logging serves most use cases as well as, or better than, syslogd.'' I think it has lots in common with this: "Fedora 20 includes the WildFly 8 Application Server, formerly known as the JBoss Application Server, a very popular Java EE platform. WildFly is a very fast, modular and lightweight server." keep producing more and more bloatware, without any other reasons than "because we have done it". I think that blindly allowing freedesktop guys to mess up all the traditional Unix startup and now logging tools with some MS-inspired crap for a very questionable reasons is quite a step back. It is also an example of an over-engineering bias (which comes from OO-only approach) - building up an unnecessary complexity. syslog and shell script based startup procedure are good-enough (and still good enough for sane systems such as BSDs or Plan9), while those who need a specialized logging (or startup) service could create it for themselves, as so many do. Changing reasonable defaults just because someone is cocksure that we need more xxxxctl and xxxxx-bridge instead of plain old text-files looks like ignorant over-confidence. Those who cannot live without journald could install it manually, why to cause a headache to the rest of us. I do remember that commercial variant of Suse Linux have tried "an innovative approach" to what a Linux server is. They introduced a set of some in-house made utilities (inspired by Netware I suppose) with non-intuitive logic and millions of command line options no one knows (which cannot be googled). Why, it is a way to success, now you could teach courses, do certification, issue meaningless titles, etc. Thank god its dead. ESX servers, btw, were (or still are) even bigger mess. I doubt that Fedora is going this way, but the signs are bad.)

CraigJPerry 13y ago
1. you don't have to upgrade 2. fork it and "fix" it If you opt for #2 submit it here.
veeti 13y ago
What the fuck are you going on about? WildFly is now included as an _available package for install in the repositories_. This is why it is in the release notes. This is like complaining that any disto is "bloatware" because their repositories include software that you happen to dislike and think is "bloat". $distro is bloated because KDE/GNOME/whatever is an option, right? Get a grip.

rogerthis 13y ago

Just for the record: - I've been using Fedora (VM, test, production server) since release 4 or 5. - I have a VM that has been updated without full reinstall since release 11. It will be destroyed soon, as I'm reinstalling the host. - I've been using Fedora as my main desktop since Fedora 16. My experience varies, depending on the sh*t they decide to push (like Gnome 3 or systemd). It takes time so that things get stable (or I get more used to them). As a full stack developer, I almost never use distro packages like gems or python libs or java libs. Even tools like Eclipse I prefer to install them separated. Overall, I'm satisfied.

adrianlmm 13y ago

Quick question: Anyone has succeeded dual botting Fedora 20 with Windows 8.1 in a UEFI system with secure boot? When I tried the beta it made Windows 8.1 unbootable.

voltagex_ 13y ago
Are you sure it didn't just replace the UEFI default boot entry? You should still be able to boot Windows after getting into GRUB, but if it messed up your EFI partition, that's a bug.
- adrianlmm 13y ago
  That's what it did, it messed with my EFI partition, so, that's why Im askin if someone has succeded with the latest reléase.

justincormack 13y ago

Better update, I am behind. I run Fedora on my powerpc machine (Mac Pro) as it is the only distro (well and RH itself) with decent ppc64 support, as IBM pays Redhat still.