8 ms·

So weird that Schneier was working for BT - As a Brit, this is the company that you have to buy a phone line from to get broadband, and that then spams you to b

So weird that Schneier was working for BT - As a Brit, this is the company that you have to buy a phone line from to get broadband, and that then spams you to buy their broadband with snail mail glossy leaflets once a month.

prof_hobart 13y ago
No you don't. I've had broadband for years without having any relationship with BT.
- tehwalrus 13y ago
  but you had to pay for extra physical cables to be installed to your house right? and the same again every time you move?
  - mattmanser 13y ago
    A lot of the UK has cable, but also recently I believe they're now unbundling the exchanges in a lot of the bigger cities, which means you don't have to buy a BT phone line.
  - prof_hobart 13y ago
    Nope. It was already there when I moved in 12 years ago. And even if I did, that still doesn't involve BT. I don't have a BT phone cable at my house though, so would need to pay for that to be installed if I wanted to go down that route.
    - tehwalrus 13y ago
      Interesting... I thought the old nationalised BT had cables to every house. I just object to not being allowed to use the hardware already installed with a provider entirely of my own choice, which would be the most efficient way to run infrastructure businesses.
      - matthewmacleod 13y ago
        BT was forced to unbundle the local loops years ago, and it's been possible to get broadband and phone services from a diversity of providers using old BT-installed lines for some time.
        alexkus 13y ago
        Don't BT end up getting some/most of the line rental money anyway; whether directly passed on or via a Wholesale Line Rental?
        Swannie 13y ago
        The price of which is regulated. It's still considered high by the ISPs that rent it.
      - andrewaylett 13y ago
        You can now get a PSTN connection without having a direct relationship with BT, through unbundling. I get my phone line from Zen (no relationship apart from being a happy customer). At the end of the day it's still a BT engineer who comes to fit the thing (assuming the wiring isn't there already), but it's your provider who has the contractual relationship with BT. There's also the cable option, but if you go down that route then you're actually more tied in to a single provider for services than with PSTN/ADSL.
      - prof_hobart 13y ago
        They had wires to any house that had paid to have it connected. I was 7 before we had a phone in the house, and they had to wire us up when that happened. My current house had BT at some point (there's a BT access box in a cupboard, but it's not connected to anything), but it was gone before I moved in - I'm guessing either as a result of some roadworks having cut through the wires or possibly a BT upgrade of their infrastructure, but as the people who lived there before me were on what was Diamond Cable at the time, BT clearly didn't bother doing whatever was involved in rewiring the house back in.
jackweirdy 13y ago
+1 on the nope, I have Virgin Media. No installation fee & the line was run to the house years ago, we don't even have a BT phone line.
jdietrich 13y ago
Britain is an extremely competitive telecoms marketplace. BT is broken up into several independent companies. The business of physically laying last-mile copper and fibre and connecting customers is done by Openreach, who are required by OFCOM (the telecoms regulator) to provide fair and non-discriminatory access to their services to any communications company. The same applies to BT Wholesale, who maintain the network and provide access to that network to communications companies. BT Retail are the company who send you glossy leaflets, but they have to compete under exactly the same terms as any other company - they pay the same prices to Openreach and BT Wholesale as Plusnet, Sky, TalkTalk or anyone else. In addition, there's a completely independent fibre network operated by Virgin Media that covers the majority of households, and national coverage for HSPA from five different mobile operators. Brits love to complain about broadband, but I think we've got it pretty good.
- tehwalrus 13y ago
  I still have to pay a monthly "line rental" for a phone number that I don't use, in order to pay someone else for ADSL broadband. I didn't know (until seeing the various replies to this post) that it could be someone other than BT.
  - growse 13y ago
    If the only existing mechanism for ADSL delivery is down a twisted copper pair that BT own, then it seems reasonable to pay BT for the use of that line. What's actually annoying is the way that you can't rent a line without buying a phone service as well.
- walshemj 13y ago
  Especially where in the USA you lucky if you have a duopoly. The one thing the uk did right was local Loop unbundeling. And as a BT.A shareholder and ex employee I must admit to enjoying the fact that buzby is kicking that nice Mr Murdoch in the nads in football
arethuza 13y ago
Although I've had terrible service from them in the past I thought I'd try their Infinity 2 FTTC service - we've had it a couple of months and I have to say I am pretty pleased. Download and upload speeds are great and the sports channels are a nice bonus (I have a rugby mad son). My only real complaint about them is trying to work out how to actually get the £50 Sainsbury voucher they promised when I signed up. Fortunately this seems to be the only part of the process that suffers from the old-style BT Kafkaesque processes....
lotsofcows 13y ago
...well, unless you have access to cable.
walshemj 13y ago
BT is more than just the ex GPO business they where moving into the big international business in a big way. Ironically abroad BT is often seen as the fast new innovative disrupting company when compared to incumbent telcos.

prof_hobart 13y ago

No you don't. I've had broadband for years without having any relationship with BT.

tehwalrus 13y ago
but you had to pay for extra physical cables to be installed to your house right? and the same again every time you move?
- mattmanser 13y ago
  A lot of the UK has cable, but also recently I believe they're now unbundling the exchanges in a lot of the bigger cities, which means you don't have to buy a BT phone line.
- prof_hobart 13y ago
  Nope. It was already there when I moved in 12 years ago. And even if I did, that still doesn't involve BT. I don't have a BT phone cable at my house though, so would need to pay for that to be installed if I wanted to go down that route.
  - tehwalrus 13y ago
    Interesting... I thought the old nationalised BT had cables to every house. I just object to not being allowed to use the hardware already installed with a provider entirely of my own choice, which would be the most efficient way to run infrastructure businesses.
    - matthewmacleod 13y ago
      BT was forced to unbundle the local loops years ago, and it's been possible to get broadband and phone services from a diversity of providers using old BT-installed lines for some time.
      - alexkus 13y ago
        Don't BT end up getting some/most of the line rental money anyway; whether directly passed on or via a Wholesale Line Rental?
        Swannie 13y ago
        The price of which is regulated. It's still considered high by the ISPs that rent it.
    - andrewaylett 13y ago
      You can now get a PSTN connection without having a direct relationship with BT, through unbundling. I get my phone line from Zen (no relationship apart from being a happy customer). At the end of the day it's still a BT engineer who comes to fit the thing (assuming the wiring isn't there already), but it's your provider who has the contractual relationship with BT. There's also the cable option, but if you go down that route then you're actually more tied in to a single provider for services than with PSTN/ADSL.
    - prof_hobart 13y ago
      They had wires to any house that had paid to have it connected. I was 7 before we had a phone in the house, and they had to wire us up when that happened. My current house had BT at some point (there's a BT access box in a cupboard, but it's not connected to anything), but it was gone before I moved in - I'm guessing either as a result of some roadworks having cut through the wires or possibly a BT upgrade of their infrastructure, but as the people who lived there before me were on what was Diamond Cable at the time, BT clearly didn't bother doing whatever was involved in rewiring the house back in.

jackweirdy 13y ago

+1 on the nope, I have Virgin Media. No installation fee & the line was run to the house years ago, we don't even have a BT phone line.

jdietrich 13y ago

Britain is an extremely competitive telecoms marketplace. BT is broken up into several independent companies. The business of physically laying last-mile copper and fibre and connecting customers is done by Openreach, who are required by OFCOM (the telecoms regulator) to provide fair and non-discriminatory access to their services to any communications company. The same applies to BT Wholesale, who maintain the network and provide access to that network to communications companies. BT Retail are the company who send you glossy leaflets, but they have to compete under exactly the same terms as any other company - they pay the same prices to Openreach and BT Wholesale as Plusnet, Sky, TalkTalk or anyone else. In addition, there's a completely independent fibre network operated by Virgin Media that covers the majority of households, and national coverage for HSPA from five different mobile operators. Brits love to complain about broadband, but I think we've got it pretty good.

tehwalrus 13y ago
I still have to pay a monthly "line rental" for a phone number that I don't use, in order to pay someone else for ADSL broadband. I didn't know (until seeing the various replies to this post) that it could be someone other than BT.
- growse 13y ago
  If the only existing mechanism for ADSL delivery is down a twisted copper pair that BT own, then it seems reasonable to pay BT for the use of that line. What's actually annoying is the way that you can't rent a line without buying a phone service as well.
walshemj 13y ago
Especially where in the USA you lucky if you have a duopoly. The one thing the uk did right was local Loop unbundeling. And as a BT.A shareholder and ex employee I must admit to enjoying the fact that buzby is kicking that nice Mr Murdoch in the nads in football

arethuza 13y ago

Although I've had terrible service from them in the past I thought I'd try their Infinity 2 FTTC service - we've had it a couple of months and I have to say I am pretty pleased. Download and upload speeds are great and the sports channels are a nice bonus (I have a rugby mad son). My only real complaint about them is trying to work out how to actually get the £50 Sainsbury voucher they promised when I signed up. Fortunately this seems to be the only part of the process that suffers from the old-style BT Kafkaesque processes....

lotsofcows 13y ago

...well, unless you have access to cable.

walshemj 13y ago

BT is more than just the ex GPO business they where moving into the big international business in a big way. Ironically abroad BT is often seen as the fast new innovative disrupting company when compared to incumbent telcos.