5 ms·

I'm not sure anyone wants to pay journalists what a world-class cryptographer makes.

by phaus 13y ago

dmix 13y ago
Just like "business" skills, journalism should be something people develop on the side while still maintaining their primary work skillset (with industry-specific skills). The big problem with journalism right now is the complete disconnect between the journalist and their understanding of the topic. Just look at every software or bitcoin article. This is largely because of the internet's turn-around speed requirements and low pay. They have no time to invest in learning about the topic. The only way to save journalism is if we start contributing to it like we do OSS. Instead of paying people minimum wage and expecting quality results, we have people who contribute articles on the side. But not just anybody writing (like blogging), but people who invest in learning how to write - working with full-time editors who manage the input and source writers.
- phaus 13y ago
  I agree with all of your suggestions, but I think a more pressing issue in the world of journalism is getting rid of the political agendas. Though some of the bias might be naturally eliminated as the quality of journalists is improved.
  - dmix 13y ago
    If we stop hiring "professional" writers with English degrees to write everything, and replace them with a distributed collection of writers with industry knowledge, we'll have a much greater input from a variety of fields. Much less likely to have bias or feel pressure from their newsroom bosses.
    - nitrogen 13y ago
      But equally if not more likely to have to filter through fluff pieces and submarine PR to get to any useful information.
- ghaff 13y ago
  I don't totally disagree but the downside is that the writers are then increasingly people who are being paid for things that may influence what they write. Of course, smart and principled people aren't necessarily as influenced as some would like to believe--but how many commenters on this site would really give someone from $PROPRIETARY_COMPANY an unbiased hearing on topics that touch open source or open standards. Journalists tend to have their own cultural biases--although more on political topics than technical ones. But, even if I won't write things I don't believe, I still choose the topics I discuss in public.
  - mdpye 13y ago
    Journalists tend to have their own cultural biases--although more on political topics than technical ones. You're on to more than you give yourself credit for there. Much modern journalism is an integral part of the political system, and many papers fit into your $PROPRIETARY_COMPANY variable quite neatly. There is some separation between party and paper, but I think as far as politics goes, we're pretty close to the hypothetical situation you describe.
    - ghaff 13y ago
      This probably goes further back in time than many on this site remember but once upon a time Newsweek and Time were pretty much the two weekly news mags. (US News and World Report but that had a somewhat different focus.) People were often surprised when Time and Newsweek had the same cover story even when it wasn't the current big news story--but this really reflected that the reporters and editors went to the same schools and worked in the same environment so really thought the same in a lot of respects. I was an engineering major but I was involved with newspapers in various respects through school and there was definitely a certain "perspective" with the mainstream publications.
  - prawn 13y ago
    "Journalists tend to have their own cultural biases--although more on political topics than technical ones." Glenn Greenwald actually argues for transparency in advocacy rather than pretending that an objective journalist even exists. Long-winded conversation about it here: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/28/opinion/a-conversation-in-lieu-of-a-column.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/28/opinion/a-conversation-in-... Also check Paid Content for a bit of a summary: http://paidcontent.org/2013/10/28/glenn-greenwald-vs-the-nyts-bill-keller-on-objectivity-and-the-future-of-journalism/ http://paidcontent.org/2013/10/28/glenn-greenwald-vs-the-nyt...
- salient 13y ago
  So like an Wikipedia for news? You may be on to something there!
- wpietri 13y ago
  Depends on the sort of journalism. Sure, you can do some sorts of writing on the side. But there's plenty of journalism that doesn't work that way. A good chunk of news requires personal presence and connection. For example, if you're covering a state legislature or a city government, you just have to spend a lot of time getting to know legislative staff and other people around the capitol or city hall. And you have to have enough readership for them to be willing to talk to you. You might be able to do that in your spare time for a small town, but I don't think it's possible for anything more substantial. The same is true of investigative journalism. Deep stories take months of research and writing. They take real budgets, real skills, real editorial backing. I write a lot for fun, and have for years. But there's only so far that fun can take you, and those places don't include the most important societal functions of journalism.
- forgottenpass 13y ago
  journalism should be something people develop on the side while still maintaining their primary work skillset (with industry-specific skills). I really love the idea of this, but I think its infeasible given time constraints in every industry, including press. I do think there is room and cross-disciplinary talent in media organizations for a journalist reporting on a (for example) programming heavy topic to grab someone from their engineering staff to collaborate and then share a by-line. If you have someone with domain knowledge in-house you might actually save research time and get a better article even with more people working on it.
- midas007 13y ago
  Yeah, it wouldn't be a highest and best use of his talents... eg hard-core crypto research. The opinion pieces seem like a highly-visible side hobby.
samstave 13y ago
Just curious, what does a world class crypto make?
polymatter 13y ago
I'm not sure that matters much to a world-class cryptographer who has consistently spoken out on principle. Many many people want to do meaningful work that matters.
jonknee 13y ago
I'm not sure that matters to Pierre Omidyar. Bruce could help make sure the rest of the new media organization's systems are secure and also help train more traditional journalists on how to stay secure.

I'm not sure anyone wants to pay journalists what a world-class cryptographer makes.

by phaus 13y ago

I'm not sure anyone wants to pay journalists what a world-class cryptographer makes.

dmix 13y ago

Just like "business" skills, journalism should be something people develop on the side while still maintaining their primary work skillset (with industry-specific skills). The big problem with journalism right now is the complete disconnect between the journalist and their understanding of the topic. Just look at every software or bitcoin article. This is largely because of the internet's turn-around speed requirements and low pay. They have no time to invest in learning about the topic. The only way to save journalism is if we start contributing to it like we do OSS. Instead of paying people minimum wage and expecting quality results, we have people who contribute articles on the side. But not just anybody writing (like blogging), but people who invest in learning how to write - working with full-time editors who manage the input and source writers.

phaus 13y ago
I agree with all of your suggestions, but I think a more pressing issue in the world of journalism is getting rid of the political agendas. Though some of the bias might be naturally eliminated as the quality of journalists is improved.
- dmix 13y ago
  If we stop hiring "professional" writers with English degrees to write everything, and replace them with a distributed collection of writers with industry knowledge, we'll have a much greater input from a variety of fields. Much less likely to have bias or feel pressure from their newsroom bosses.
  - nitrogen 13y ago
    But equally if not more likely to have to filter through fluff pieces and submarine PR to get to any useful information.
ghaff 13y ago
I don't totally disagree but the downside is that the writers are then increasingly people who are being paid for things that may influence what they write. Of course, smart and principled people aren't necessarily as influenced as some would like to believe--but how many commenters on this site would really give someone from $PROPRIETARY_COMPANY an unbiased hearing on topics that touch open source or open standards. Journalists tend to have their own cultural biases--although more on political topics than technical ones. But, even if I won't write things I don't believe, I still choose the topics I discuss in public.
- mdpye 13y ago
  Journalists tend to have their own cultural biases--although more on political topics than technical ones. You're on to more than you give yourself credit for there. Much modern journalism is an integral part of the political system, and many papers fit into your $PROPRIETARY_COMPANY variable quite neatly. There is some separation between party and paper, but I think as far as politics goes, we're pretty close to the hypothetical situation you describe.
  - ghaff 13y ago
    This probably goes further back in time than many on this site remember but once upon a time Newsweek and Time were pretty much the two weekly news mags. (US News and World Report but that had a somewhat different focus.) People were often surprised when Time and Newsweek had the same cover story even when it wasn't the current big news story--but this really reflected that the reporters and editors went to the same schools and worked in the same environment so really thought the same in a lot of respects. I was an engineering major but I was involved with newspapers in various respects through school and there was definitely a certain "perspective" with the mainstream publications.
- prawn 13y ago
  "Journalists tend to have their own cultural biases--although more on political topics than technical ones." Glenn Greenwald actually argues for transparency in advocacy rather than pretending that an objective journalist even exists. Long-winded conversation about it here: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/28/opinion/a-conversation-in-lieu-of-a-column.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/28/opinion/a-conversation-in-... Also check Paid Content for a bit of a summary: http://paidcontent.org/2013/10/28/glenn-greenwald-vs-the-nyts-bill-keller-on-objectivity-and-the-future-of-journalism/ http://paidcontent.org/2013/10/28/glenn-greenwald-vs-the-nyt...
salient 13y ago
So like an Wikipedia for news? You may be on to something there!
wpietri 13y ago
Depends on the sort of journalism. Sure, you can do some sorts of writing on the side. But there's plenty of journalism that doesn't work that way. A good chunk of news requires personal presence and connection. For example, if you're covering a state legislature or a city government, you just have to spend a lot of time getting to know legislative staff and other people around the capitol or city hall. And you have to have enough readership for them to be willing to talk to you. You might be able to do that in your spare time for a small town, but I don't think it's possible for anything more substantial. The same is true of investigative journalism. Deep stories take months of research and writing. They take real budgets, real skills, real editorial backing. I write a lot for fun, and have for years. But there's only so far that fun can take you, and those places don't include the most important societal functions of journalism.
forgottenpass 13y ago
journalism should be something people develop on the side while still maintaining their primary work skillset (with industry-specific skills). I really love the idea of this, but I think its infeasible given time constraints in every industry, including press. I do think there is room and cross-disciplinary talent in media organizations for a journalist reporting on a (for example) programming heavy topic to grab someone from their engineering staff to collaborate and then share a by-line. If you have someone with domain knowledge in-house you might actually save research time and get a better article even with more people working on it.
midas007 13y ago
Yeah, it wouldn't be a highest and best use of his talents... eg hard-core crypto research. The opinion pieces seem like a highly-visible side hobby.

samstave 13y ago

Just curious, what does a world class crypto make?

polymatter 13y ago

I'm not sure that matters much to a world-class cryptographer who has consistently spoken out on principle. Many many people want to do meaningful work that matters.

jonknee 13y ago

I'm not sure that matters to Pierre Omidyar. Bruce could help make sure the rest of the new media organization's systems are secure and also help train more traditional journalists on how to stay secure.