> it takes a special kind of arrogance for this young man to believe his moral judgment on the dilemma suddenly trumps that of two (incredibly diffe

> it takes a special kind of arrogance for this young man to believe his moral judgment on the dilemma suddenly trumps that of two (incredibly different) presidents, both houses of the U.S. Congress, both political parties, the U.S. court system and more than 30,000 of his co-workers. Here's the counterpoint to this opinion: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/02/daniel-ellsberg-limitations-knowledge http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/02/daniel-ellsber... > "You will deal with a person who doesn't have those clearances only from the point of view of what you want him to believe and what impression you want him to go away with, since you'll have to lie carefully to him about what you know. In effect, you will have to manipulate him. You'll give up trying to assess what he has to say. The danger is, you'll become something like a moron. You'll become incapable of learning from most people in the world, no matter how much experience they may have in their particular areas that may be much greater than yours." To be clear, I think this is a highly complex issue and needs a lot of careful thought. I'm not at all suggesting General Hayden is wrong. I am suggesting that he doesn't believe an open, democratic debate about it serves any purpose. To be more precise, the most misleading thing in the first quote is the bit about trumping two presidents, congress, both political parties and the courts. Plainly, given what we now know, a large proportion of these mentioned have been misinformed and not allowed to consider and debate what has been happening. And I include the courts here, thanks to parallel construction. Also on the same lines, about the lack of debate, David Foster Wallace: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/11/just-asking/306288/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/11/just-ask... I don't think you should be surprised that most of Hacker News is currently upset and only considering one side of the story. This is the debate that everyone has needed but has been suppressed up to now. Naturally, it rebounds stronger when it finally comes.